So if the defense is terrible again this season?

[pbmax]

We sure do a hell of a lot better job restocking on offense than we do on defense.

That gets at the problem and is what McCarthy has been yapping about all offseason. It doesn't make a lot of sense that Ted can't find football players in the draft for defense but excels on offense.

The problem is scheme and fit. Capers isn't the best match of a D coach for the Packers player acquisition philosophy. He may not be as stubborn as Dick LeBeau, but he plays a scheme that works well for vets, less well for youngsters.

Its McCarthy (with Ted approval) who have hired a D coordinator that may not be the best match for the team. The 2014 question is will the changes McCarthy demanded work to alleviate the problem.

[Patler]

that's what every coach will say, isn't it ? It's pretty common knowledge scouts all over noted Perry was a 4-3 guy. It's not DOM's fault he has stiff hips and is limited in the range of talents one wants in a 3-4 OLB.

In the end, with safety, the Collins injury has completed tramatized this organization and if he were still around Collins and Burnettt would be a pretty dam good duo. But he's not.

So who gets held accountable that we have had junk there since he left ? Either TT has drafted the wrong guys, our secondary coaches suck, or we might need to add an assignment sure guy or two back there in terms of a quality veteran.

I know TT singed a couple free agent safeties; one might argue he was bottom feeding there with guys with minimal talent. I struggle to remember anybody good. Manual rotted. Was there a Roman's too ? I think I remember two cheap guys who played real cheap as well.

We sure do a hell of a lot better job restocking on offense than we do on defense.

It is neither TT's nor Capers fault that Perry can't stay healthy enough to practice, let alone play games.
When he actually is available, how Perry is used is on Capers, not TT.

As I wrote a week or so ago, I'm not sure Perry is anymore suited to a classic 4-3 DE than he is to a classic 3-4 OLB. But, the guy does have some football ability. The notion that a guy can't be effective just because he doesn't fit the classic description for the position is ridiculous, in my opinion. Two things prevent him from contributing (three if you include injuries). First and foremost it is the players attitude, his effort and willingness to accept his role and give it everything he has. Second, it's on the coaches to be creative in their use of the player, taking advantage of what he does well and minimizing reliance on what he does poorly.

[KYPack]

It is neither TT's nor Capers fault that Perry can't stay healthy enough to practice, let alone play games.
When he actually is available, how Perry is used is on Capers, not TT.

As I wrote a week or so ago, I'm not sure Perry is anymore suited to a classic 4-3 DE than he is to a classic 3-4 OLB. But, the guy does have some football ability. The notion that a guy can't be effective just because he doesn't fit the classic description for the position is ridiculous, in my opinion. Two things prevent him from contributing (three if you include injuries). First and foremost it is the players attitude, his effort and willingness to accept his role and give it everything he has. Second, it's on the coaches to be creative in their use of the player, taking advantage of what he does well and minimizing reliance on what he does poorly.

Everybody says he's be a great 4-3 DE. I doubt it. His stiff hips would get abused by OT's at DE. He also isn't violent enough with his hands to be a 4-3 DE. Sometimes you have to ignore where a guy was drafted and put him where he can do the job. Perry is a good guy to have bc we have Peppers. Julius isn't an every snap DE or OLB anymore, but with Perry getting some of the snaps, Pep can be used more effectively. Perry is a spot guy and ST type player that can be used perfectly in conjunction with our personnel.

His attitude? Yeah, it probably needs adjusting and if he doesn't do that, he won't be resigned. I think we can get a productive season out of him, which is more than I can say from other guys trying to make this roster.

[3irty1]

that's what every coach will say, isn't it ? It's pretty common knowledge scouts all over noted Perry was a 4-3 guy. It's not DOM's fault he has stiff hips and is limited in the range of talents one wants in a 3-4 OLB.

In the end, with safety, the Collins injury has completed tramatized this organization and if he were still around Collins and Burnettt would be a pretty dam good duo. But he's not.

So who gets held accountable that we have had junk there since he left ? Either TT has drafted the wrong guys, our secondary coaches suck, or we might need to add an assignment sure guy or two back there in terms of a quality veteran.

I know TT singed a couple free agent safeties; one might argue he was bottom feeding there with guys with minimal talent. I struggle to remember anybody good. Manual rotted. Was there a Roman's too ? I think I remember two cheap guys who played real cheap as well.

We sure do a hell of a lot better job restocking on offense than we do on defense.

60% is a big number. I'm one that's quick to forgive the GM because I think its a logical fallacy to assume there is always combination of possible moves and decisions that will yield a superbowl every year. The players themselves don't always play up to their potential but I'm quick to forgive them too because unless you think they aren't taking their preparation seriously or get lazy with their body. Would Micah Hyde have caught the ball with an extra hour of jugs machine drills? My feeling is no. Coaches on the other hand are responsible for both the long term philosophies and short term strategies so my thinking would be that if the right combination of decisions lies within just one guy, its got to be them simply by the huge volume of possible decisions they have. Also those decisions are less data-driven than those of a GM so the human element is more pronounced. Just my two cents.

I also don't know that we do such a better job restocking on offense. We're perpetually solid at QB and WR but the line, running backs, and TE positions have all been a roller coaster. Rodgers is a one man offense and McCarthy has shown to be a very competent game planner and play caller. Those two just mask a lot of weaknesses IMO.

On defense we've had an embarrassment of riches at the cornerback position compared to other teams. For the most part we've managed to keep a premiere pass rusher on retainer as well. Capers deserves the criticisms he gets IMO. He does have shitty luck though.

[Joemailman]

that's what every coach will say, isn't it ? It's pretty common knowledge scouts all over noted Perry was a 4-3 guy. It's not DOM's fault he has stiff hips and is limited in the range of talents one wants in a 3-4 OLB.

In the end, with safety, the Collins injury has completed tramatized this organization and if he were still around Collins and Burnettt would be a pretty dam good duo. But he's not.

So who gets held accountable that we have had junk there since he left ? Either TT has drafted the wrong guys, our secondary coaches suck, or we might need to add an assignment sure guy or two back there in terms of a quality veteran.

I know TT singed a couple free agent safeties; one might argue he was bottom feeding there with guys with minimal talent. I struggle to remember anybody good. Manual rotted. Was there a Roman's too ? I think I remember two cheap guys who played real cheap as well.

We sure do a hell of a lot better job restocking on offense than we do on defense.

I think Darren Perry is a guy who now needs to produce. He hasn't developed anybody at that position. The only outstanding performer he's had was Nick Collins, and Collins was a Pro Bowler before Perry was hired. Burnett is a pretty talented guy who regressed at a time when he should be entering the prime of his career. Perry now has arguably the best Safety from the 2014 draft, and a good, instinctive player in Hyde to go along with Burnett. If that group can't at least elevate their play into the solid category, I think coaching has to be an issue. If you're going to be a draft and develop team, then the coaches have to be able to develop young talent. Up until now, Perry hasn't done that.

[Zool]

Is Perry the coach of all the DBs or just the safeties? The Packers are starting 2 undrafted guys at CB so someone is doing something right there.

[Joemailman]

Is Perry the coach of all the DBs or just the safeties? The Packers are starting 2 undrafted guys at CB so someone is doing something right there.

On the Packers website, Perry is listed on the coaching roster as Secondary-Safeties. Joe Whitt is listed as Secondary-Cornerbacks.

Whitt was hired by McCarthy a year before bringing in Capers. Perry was hired a few weeks after the hiring of Capers in 2009, so he was probably a Capers recruit.

[Zool]

Well then Perry might just suck. There have been actual draft picks at S and no one is sticking very long.

[pbmax]

Well then Perry might just suck. There have been actual draft picks at S and no one is sticking very long.

Perry was hired by LeBeau in Pittsburgh (after being a very good safety for them) and was considered on a fast track to coordinator-ville and an eventual HC. But when Tomlin replaced Cowher, he dumped some existing coaches to put in his own people. LeBeau wouldn't comment, saying it was the HC's call.

It was an interesting maneuver, because Pittsburgh gives its defensive staff a huge amount of sway in personnel and roster moves. Tomlin was not allowed to pick his own D coordinator or scheme despite (I think) a background in defense.

Perry might have been out the door already and LeBeau was able to pass it off as an HC exercising his hiring discretion. But up to the dismissal, he was very well thought of. There were no rumors at the time that he was on the outs. New HC coaches like to have people they know on both sides of the ball, hence Winston Moss on D.

It looked like a coup at the time. But he hasn't been delivering.

[Fritz]

Big year for this defensive staff. If this season is a repeat of the last few, with a powerful offense and a lame-o defense, I think Capers will be driven into retirement and perhaps much of the defensive staff dismissed. I don't think McC will let them all go, however. I don't think he wants to completely start over on defense this far into his head coaching career with the Pack.

[Carolina_Packer]

Big year for this defensive staff. If this season is a repeat of the last few, with a powerful offense and a lame-o defense, I think Capers will be driven into retirement and perhaps much of the defensive staff dismissed. I don't think McC will let them all go, however. I don't think he wants to completely start over on defense this far into his head coaching career with the Pack.

Which is worse, the cure or the disease?

[Fritz]

If this defense is like the recent ones, the disease is worse. Cut it out.

[wist43]

The disease is 3-fold,

1) Injuries
2) Picking players that are a poor fit for what Capers wants to do
3) Capers not designing a scheme to fit the players he's been given

The cure is running more 3-3 and 4-2, and that is entirely in Capers hands. He certainly has the ability to get it done, but for some reason he refuses to adjust.

As I said when we hired him 6 years ago - I don't trust him. He is very, very stubborn about making adjustments, even when the results of doing what he's been doing are disasterous - which has now finally led to MM stepping in and getting involved with what Capers is doing (at least a year too late IMO).

He does not have the personnel to run the 2-4, yet game after game, down after down... he refuses to adjust. TT has given him talent stacked on the DL, and has himself refused to invest in LB's. If your scheme is predicated upon outstanding linebacker play, and the GM refuses to upgrade the talent at linebacker - you had best adjust as quickly as possible, or your defense is going to be in big trouble.

If we had SF's linebackers?? I wouldn't bitch as much about the 2-4, but we don't have their linebackers - we have 2 slugs slogging away in the middle. We need to run much more 3-3 and 4-2 to minimize our weakness at LB, and take full advantage of the talent we have on the DL.

This year I think we will finally see more of the cure than the disease. Peppers is a big upgrade, even if his snaps need to be rationed, and MM getting involved with the defense should help.

We'll see.

[Rutnstrut]

So is it lack of awareness on the part of the GM by not getting the right players, and the DC for not recognizing the players he has need to be used differently? Or is it that both are just to stubborn to flex with the situation? Either way it's on their heads imo.

[wist43]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/youth-gets-its-chance-on-packers-defensive-line-b99315437z1-268489612.html

After reading this article, makes me wonder if Trgovac is a big part of the problem??

I really didn't like the tone of this article... makes me think Capers and Trgovac just don't get it.