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So if the defense is terrible again this season?

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  • #91
    Got brought back to this article today: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/261284361.html

    OK, here is my attempt to reconcile the disparate pronouncements made by the Packers coaching staff this offseason about how the defense will change. McCarthy has been talking about players and losing their offseason plans due to injury, Capers has been talking vanilla D, personnel packages and volume.

    1. Fewer alignments. Jumbo sets (both in base 3-4 and the 2-4 tilted to play run D) looks like its not going to be featured with Pick gone and Jolly questionable to return. The Packers have some replacements, Boyd, Guion, but they are not Howard Green types. It would seem these guys (possible exception of Boyd) will see less snaps. So I take this to mean less Jumbo. With fewer alignments to learn (and more reps in certain alignments), younger players might be able to play more.

    2. More personnel packages. The offensive variety the Packers see won't diminish, so you still need to matchup. But instead of an alignment change or alteration, they will sub out people to bring different skills onto the field.

    3. Duplication of player skills. On a defense that is dependent on its OLB putting pressure on the QB, the Packers were dealt a serious blow with injures to Matthews, Perry and Mulumba. Its easy to read too much into Peppers signing, but a Peppers last year probably makes the D's pass rush more of a threat every down even if he is paired with Nate Palmer. I don't know if OLBs could be more important to this team, but Peppers specifically at OLB means the Packers are committing resources to the position so that even the normal run of injuries won't decimate it and cause half the playbook to be tossed aside. There are two basic types of D lineman bodies on this roster outside of Raji and its either DE from a 3-4 or a 4-3 3-technique tackle. Without much Jumbo, those players are a bit more interchangeable than last year when pass rush and quickness often had to be sacrificed for stoutness.

    4. No matter how you try to square the very general pronouncements, there is always a conflict or two and we won't know the reality until preseason games. This is evident with Item #2; by going with more interchangeable body types, the skill sets kinda start to merge. There are a lot of D lineman who are supposed to supply a pass rush, but fewer who are run pluggers. this does have the advantage of making it less likely you cannot run your favorite packagers after injuries (something M3 has mentioned). However, it means you could get short handed against specific kinds of teams.

    5. Capers really singles out personnel groups. So what alignments with the most successful players dictate? I'm not sure anyone knows, but they haven't shown anything in camp that is a radical departure according to press coverage. But Capers does mention Woodson, who played himself into a new position in nickel. Could the same thing happen with Peppers and Matthews?
    Last edited by pbmax; 06-10-2014, 08:43 AM.
    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

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    • #92
      I think you can assume Clay will miss games due to injuries, and Perry hasn't stayed healthy. Last year Neal played more snaps than I think they expected him to, and Palmer/Mulumba were rookies, so they were pretty green at the position. I wouldn't be surprised if that affected some of the plays, there wasn't a lot of experience at OLB on game day. Adding Peppers, getting people back healthy, last year's rookies being in the system a full year, and adding Carl Bradford should help the OLB depth tremendously.

      I'm unclear on the DL -- I thought they wanted to get more traditional 3-4 DE's, but they drafted Thornton with guys like Urban on the board. Pickett and Jolly won't be back, and I think Worthy has to show something this year or he's gone too. I think they want more quickness and pass rush from the DL; we'll see if that works. I wonder what the run defense will actually look like, although I'm not sure Pickett and Jolly were giving that much more there than what they can get from some of the young guys.

      Seems like they do have more duplicate types at spots, so some of those comments make sense. One player gets hurt, you can plug another similar player in and keep calling the same game vs. having to adjust your calls and throw out a chunk of your prep for that week.

      The guy I think of when Capers talks Woodson is Micah Hyde. I think they want to train him to be a hybrid and move him around. I don't think he's near as good as Woodson, but not many are. Still, he could be someone who blitzes one down and covers out of the slot the next while letting you play Burnett and HHCD elsewhere on the field.

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      • #93
        Last edited by Pugger; 06-10-2014, 10:41 AM.

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        • #94


          Sorry about wasting this bandwidth.
          Last edited by Pugger; 06-10-2014, 10:42 AM.

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          • #95
            3. Duplication of player skills. On a defense that is dependent on its OLB putting pressure on the QB, the Packers were dealt a serious blow with injures to Matthews, Perry and Mulumba. Its easy to read too much into Peppers signing, but a Peppers last year probably makes the D's pass rush more of a threat every down even if he is paired with Nate Palmer. I don't know if OLBs could be more important to this team, but Peppers specifically at OLB means the Packers are committing resources to the position so that even the normal run of injuries won't decimate it and cause half the playbook to be tossed aside. .... Fr. post #91 pbmax




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            • #96
              If the defense is terrible again this season, then fire Dom.

              Or keep him on as the defensive backs coach, and make him go without his rug.
              "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

              KYPack

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              • #97
                I hope it's more "vanilla". Get the younger guys proficient at doing the basics of the 3-4 first...then add the rocket science. The less rampant confusion in coverage, the better.

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                • #98
                  Defensive Line Updates

                  1. Jolly has been cleared by his Doc

                  2. Guion has been the backup nose for Raji

                  3. Daniels and Jones seem most like to start with Raji (but this observation is noticeably light on details or evidence)

                  4. Worthy has not taken a snap since his injure

                  5. Daniels has been the vocal leader

                  Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by pbmax View Post
                    Defensive Line Updates

                    1. Jolly has been cleared by his Doc

                    2. Guion has been the backup nose for Raji

                    3. Daniels and Jones seem most like to start with Raji (but this observation is noticeably light on details or evidence)

                    4. Worthy has not taken a snap since his injure

                    5. Daniels has been the vocal leader

                    http://www.packersnews.com/story/spo.../?sf27904902=1

                    6. Picket told Sirius radio that he intends to play in 2014, preferably in Green Bay.

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                    • I'm thinking Worthy could be done here. He hasn't been healthy for a while, and didn't stand out when he was healthy. That could open up a spot for either Pickett or Jolly.
                      I can't run no more
                      With that lawless crowd
                      While the killers in high places
                      Say their prayers out loud
                      But they've summoned, they've summoned up
                      A thundercloud
                      They're going to hear from me - Leonard Cohen

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                      • Originally posted by Joemailman View Post
                        I'm thinking Worthy could be done here. He hasn't been healthy for a while, and didn't stand out when he was healthy. That could open up a spot for either Pickett or Jolly.
                        I was pretty sure Worthy was done...until I was reminded in an article that Daniels and Worthy didn't show much in their first year. Daniels jumped in his second year while Worthy was recovering from an injury.

                        Now I don't expect Worthy to jump, but it's possible, so I'm now withholding the judgment I previously wasn't withholding.
                        No longer the member of any fan clubs. I'm tired of jinxing players out of the league and into obscurity.

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                        • The Packers tend to be patient with injured players, especially early in their careers. Worthy didn't have a lot of production in his rookie year, but he was regarded highly enough that he played around 450 snaps. Last year was simply lost to his injury at the end of 2012. I would be surprised if they gave up this quickly on him.

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                          • I'm in agreement. He probably will be ready to go for training camp, and I suspect he'll get a lot of snaps in preseason to see where he's at.

                            I wonder if he's added any weight or worked on his quickness while he's been off.
                            "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

                            KYPack

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Patler View Post
                              The Packers tend to be patient with injured players, especially early in their careers. Worthy didn't have a lot of production in his rookie year, but he was regarded highly enough that he played around 450 snaps. Last year was simply lost to his injury at the end of 2012. I would be surprised if they gave up this quickly on him.
                              There must have been something we liked about him to draft him in the 2nd round...

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                              • Originally posted by Fritz View Post
                                I'm in agreement. He probably will be ready to go for training camp, and I suspect he'll get a lot of snaps in preseason to see where he's at.

                                I wonder if he's added any weight or worked on his quickness while he's been off.
                                I saw an article a while back that said he purposely lost about 20 pounds last off-season, essentially to get rid of baby-fat, then began a weight training program to build back up with added muscle weight. It was all part of their plan to reshape his body for the NFL.

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