Official Packers/Vikings Discussion Thread Week 5

[3irty1]

Lining up in the nickel, with only 2 DL on the field on 3rd and 1?? Okay fine, let's say that's a grand idea - is positioning both of your DL outside the Guards "sound"?? The center must be wondering, "... where the fuck did the defensive line go"?? Cutler had to be wondering - "wow, I guess they want me to run for 20 yds... what's the catch"??

What play are you talking about here?

[wist43]

What play are you talking about here?

There's no shortage of examples - go thru the tape. I don't have it anymore, so I can't watch it.

That said, Capers routinely either completely abandons, or gives very short shrift to defending anything up the middle - haven't you noticed how easy it is for teams to just run it down our throats?? That would be b/c Capers isn't even thinking about defending the middle of the field - he admitted as much in that JS article.

That said, last night he did actually bottle up the middle much of the night - very much out of character for Capers, and very much what is needed every game. As should be obvious though, that will not be a trend - it was a one game deal... next week he will be right back to his nonsense.

[mission]

mission's advice seems like it was spot on.

Only because I didn't bet it.

[3irty1]

There's no shortage of examples - go thru the tape. I don't have it anymore, so I can't watch it.

That said, Capers routinely either completely abandons, or gives very short shrift to defending anything up the middle - haven't you noticed how easy it is for teams to just run it down our throats?? That would be b/c Capers isn't even thinking about defending the middle of the field - he admitted as much in that JS article.

That said, last night he did actually bottle up the middle much of the night - very much out of character for Capers, and very much what is needed every game. As should be obvious though, that will not be a trend - it was a one game deal... next week he will be right back to his nonsense.

Are you talking about the Bears game?

1st quarter 1:19, 3rd and 1. Bears go no huddle, Packers are in the "4-3" or 2-5 if you prefer. Forte goes off right tackle and stuffed by Burnett for no gain.

Next play 4th and 1 is the Cutler fumble and run. Packers are in a 4-3 (2-5) again with Burnett playing up for an 8 man box. Neal and Daniels quit on the play after being ridden to the side, are flat footed waiting for the whistle as Cutler picks it up and runs past them. Everyone else in coverage and thank god because he could have thrown and easy TD.

2nd Quarter, same drive there are a bunch of X and goal plays from the 1 during our kick ass goal line stand.

Later in 2nd quarter at 5:56, 2nd and 1. Forte stuffed for no gain.

Next play 3rd and 1, Bears go big bringing in an extra lineman. Packers go 4-3 with Burnett up in the box. 4 yard gain by forte.

3rd quarter at 8:19, 3rd and 1 is the QB sneak for 2.

I'm going to stop here because after this point is both ints and the game gets considerably less competitive. Plus I must have the wrong game because I didn't see any of what you're talking about.

[3irty1]

Okay then - is that a "sound" approach??

I would argue absolutely not.

Since running the ball is inherently safer, i.e. less chance of a turnover or negative play, and dunderdummy is willing to concede that - and we then have to accept all of the negative consequences that come along with that, i.e. most notably TOP differential - that has to be a recipe for failure, i.e. it is philosophically unsound.

Reading that article, it's pretty clear to me that Capers doesn't care about the run, he doesn't care about the LOS, he doesn't care about TOP - it seems he doesn't care about playing good defense. It sounds like he believes the dreaded "bend but don't break" defense should be our full-time base, lol... what an idiot!! Can't believe MM and TT have bought into this clown.

He needs to retire.

It does seem that he cares about points.

What I got out of the article is that his game plan is tailored to combat the opponents strength. True that he dared the Lions and Bears to run but he dared the Jets to pass. Obviously the Bears were more capable of making us pay for that choice but given the result of the game its hard to argue it was the wrong one, if you had to stop one or the other. Capers also says in the article that ideally you'd stop everything.

Against a team like the Vikings you get a game plan more like the Jets which we'd all expect.

I think you need to clear the old cache and give a real evaluation of this defense. You declared the season a waste after 1 preseason game and have been an echo chamber of Capers hate ever since. Things seem a little different this year, a lot of the old tropes no longer seem to fit.

[wist43]

Are you talking about the Bears game?

1st quarter 1:19, 3rd and 1. Bears go no huddle, Packers are in the "4-3" or 2-5 if you prefer. Forte goes off right tackle and stuffed by Burnett for no gain.

Next play 4th and 1 is the Cutler fumble and run. Packers are in a 4-3 (2-5) again with Burnett playing up for an 8 man box. Neal and Daniels quit on the play after being ridden to the side, are flat footed waiting for the whistle as Cutler picks it up and runs past them. Everyone else in coverage and thank god because he could have thrown and easy TD.

2nd Quarter, same drive there are a bunch of X and goal plays from the 1 during our kick ass goal line stand.

Later in 2nd quarter at 5:56, 2nd and 1. Forte stuffed for no gain.

Next play 3rd and 1, Bears go big bringing in an extra lineman. Packers go 4-3 with Burnett up in the box. 4 yard gain by forte.

3rd quarter at 8:19, 3rd and 1 is the QB sneak for 2.

I'm going to stop here because after this point is both ints and the game gets considerably less competitive. Plus I must have the wrong game because I didn't see any of what you're talking about.

You and Max... Dom's ur guy - 176 yds/game on the ground is a fine trade off... wonder why no other DC in the history of the game ever came to that conclusion?? It's so obvious, it's brilliant!!!

[3irty1]

You and Max... Dom's ur guy - 176 yds/game on the ground is a fine trade off... wonder why no other DC in the history of the game ever came to that conclusion?? It's so obvious, it's brilliant!!!

I'll take 500 yards on the ground if it means only 17 points.

[denverYooper]

I'll take 500 yards on the ground if it means only 17 points.

One of McCarthy's key metrics is explosive play differential. The last 2 games illustrate why.

[wist43]

Wow... I truly live in an insane world - where getting run over like little sissies is actually considered good defense, lol.

More is less, War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength, and 2+2=5

[Joemailman]

One of McCarthy's key metrics is explosive play differential. The last 2 games illustrate why.

If you look at the stats of the Bears game, it's pretty obvious what the plan was: Don't let Brandon Marshall and Jeffery beat you. You take those guys away, and Cutler is average at best. So most of the yards went to Forte and Bennett. It's not that they wouldn't have liked to do a better job against those guys, but they knew Forte couldn't beat them.

[Cheesehead Craig]

You and Max... Dom's ur guy - 176 yds/game on the ground is a fine trade off... wonder why no other DC in the history of the game ever came to that conclusion?? It's so obvious, it's brilliant!!!

Hey now, it's down to 163/game after last night. Let's stay up to date here.

[Guiness]

If you look at the stats of the Bears game, it's pretty obvious what the plan was: Don't let Brandon Marshall and Jeffery beat you. You take those guys away, and Cutler is average at best. So most of the yards went to Forte and Bennett. It's not that they wouldn't have liked to do a better job against those guys, but they knew Forte couldn't beat them.

Pack took away Marshall for sure, Forte was doing a number on them until Cutler 'took control of the game' by forcing a few balls.

What worries me a bit is when it goes the other way. Detroit said they focused on Nelson, they shut him down and the Pack's O floundered. We like to think the other weapons in this O prevent that from happening, but last night was the only time we've seen it.

[3irty1]

Pack took away Marshall for sure, Forte was doing a number on them until Cutler 'took control of the game' by forcing a few balls.

What worries me a bit is when it goes the other way. Detroit said they focused on Nelson, they shut him down and the Pack's O floundered. We like to think the other weapons in this O prevent that from happening, but last night was the only time we've seen it.

This is where I'm at too. Last night was pretty crappy conditions for footwork which honestly is probably more conducive for big plays since shit happens, guys slip or fall, and its just generally tougher to play tight defense against a well timed passing attack. Lacy doing that kind of damage with only 13 carries is going to make this offense sing everytime though.

[denverYooper]

Pack took away Marshall for sure, Forte was doing a number on them until Cutler 'took control of the game' by forcing a few balls.

What worries me a bit is when it goes the other way. Detroit said they focused on Nelson, they shut him down and the Pack's O floundered. We like to think the other weapons in this O prevent that from happening, but last night was the only time we've seen it.

They dropped a lot of balls vs Detroit. Heck, if Cobb catches that pass up the sideline that dropped in the bucket, the game might look totally different.

[3irty1]

It was nice to see that Greg Jennings is enjoying his retirement in Minnesota.