More Banjo: @ Saints Week Oh Who the *$%&! Cares

[denverYooper]

Hmm were we watching the same game? I remember at least 10 passes with no packers within 5 yards. At least 10.

Name them.

[Patler]

I agree with a lot of what you said. It's not hard to imagine a situation where the Packers would have been up 10-14 points in the third quarter.
- Better red zone production early on, Peppers not dropping the TD
- The tip drill pass to Cooks that somehow fell between 3 Packers directly into Cook's chest
- If Rodgers doesn't tweak his hamstring, he most likely steps up into the pocket and hits Adams running across the back of the end zone

Oh well, it is what it is. 6-2 sounds a whole lot better than 5-3 but the Packers still control their destiny. Detroit still has to play at NE, AZ, and GB and they are extremely lucky to be 6-2 right now.

I'm even willing to take the 1st half as it was, dropped pass by Peppers, missed onside attempt and all. 16-16 at half was fine with me, because NO had their missed opportunities as well Someone needed to steal a possession, and GB did it first with the stop on 4th down. It could have moved them into the drivers seat for the second half, and who knows where it might have gone from there.

Pro games change on a few plays. The last 4 plays of the Packers 1st possession in the 2nd half changed the game.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Rodgers at full speed extends the play on 2nd down instead of quickly throwing it away without even moving. Rodgers on the move is his most dangerous. A TD on 2nd down with Rodgers on the move, and you don't even get to the play resulting in the first interception.

After the hamstring tweak, Rodgers was not as accurate, nor were things as in sync in the passing game as they had been. The first interception wasn't a bad throw, but it could have been better, and if better maybe not tipped by the DB for the interception. We have all seen Rodgers deadly accurate many, many times. He was early in the game, but not after the hamstring.

No, the defense could not stop NO after that, but the NO defense showed no signs of being able to stop GB until the injury and watered down passing game thereafter.

Rodgers didn't look right for the remainder of the game. Adams didn't lose awarenes of where the first down was, he had to shift his momentum backward to catch the pass that was just a bit off. Rodgers at his best makes a better throw for the 1st down.

Rodgers made some plays work the rest of the game, but it wasn't the Rodgers of the first half + the drive before the injury, and therefore a different passing offense.

The complexion of the game changed with the tweaked hamstring. Maybe the result didn't change, but the run-away victory would not have been as dramatic, in my opinion.

Everything you said is spot on. If the Rodgers that started the game would have finished the game the score would have been something like 38-35. But by your same argument that means they would have scored 60 points if Rodgers say missed the whole game. Brees hasn't played amazing for most of the year. Even in the two home wins before our game hes made bad throws and big mistakes at times. We made him look stoppable last night. All I'm saying is that what happened to Rodgers in the second half doesn't change how the defense always folds when facing elite qbs. I'm not looking for a shutout. But a few punts would be nice.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Name them.

Name them. lol. Right. Yeah let me go get my game tape and I'll have them right out for you. While I'm doing that, go name at least passes that were well contested and almost broken up.

[Patler]

Hmm were we watching the same game? I remember at least 10 passes with no packers within 5 yards. At least 10.

There are some of those in most games in today's NFL and all the QBs hit those. That's why most of the QB's have completion percentages above 60%. The plays that kill you are the ones where you don't have great coverage, but are close, and the QB nails it. A bit overthrown and the WR doesn't get it, a bit underthrown and the DB can redeem himself. The elite QBs hit those regularly. If they miss those, you soon forget about the ones that were wide open, because the drive stalls anyway.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Green Bay had over 500 yards of offense too... 515 to NO's 504, and 7.8 yards/play to NO's 7.6. The offensive numbers were very similar. Rodgers threw for 418 yards.

Also, 2 interceptions and 8 penalties for 84 yards, where NO had 0 and 4 for 35

I'm not putting the loss on the offense obviously. Even with the TO the game shouldn't get out of hand like that. It took the Saints a mere two minutes to go 90 yards after the first pick. Pathetic.

[pbmax]

Perfect example is tipped passes. NO had one and it landed on their receiver. Packers had two and both bounced to defenders.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

There are some of those in most games in today's NFL and all the QBs hit those. That's why most of the QB's have completion percentages above 60%. The plays that kill you are the ones where you don't have great coverage, but are close, and the QB nails it. A bit overthrown and the WR doesn't get it, a bit underthrown and the DB can redeem himself. The elite QBs hit those regularly. If they miss those, you soon forget about the ones that were wide open, because the drive stalls anyway.

Sure a QB can be lights out some games and a little off in others. However, usually the games the QB is a little off are the ones when hes getting pressure in the face. He had all day to throw most of the game.

[denverYooper]

Name them. lol. Right. Yeah let me go get my game tape and I'll have them right out for you. While I'm doing that, go name at least passes that were well contested and almost broken up.

You were the one who made a very specific claim - 10 plays where there was not a defender within 5 yards.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

You were the one who made a very specific claim - 10 plays where there was not a defender within 5 yards.

I remember a lot of them, a couple to Jimmy Graham right off the top of head. How about he one near the sideline when Hyde waited for him to pick up another 10 yards and almost score. Or how about 3rd and 8 early in the game and a freakin RB walks out of the back field over the middle and picks up 10. And many others. If I really did have the game tape I would easily find ten.

[Patler]

Sure a QB can be lights out some games and a little off in others. However, usually the games the QB is a little off are the ones when hes getting pressure in the face. He had all day to throw most of the game.

Pressure can be part of it, but do you think Cutler would have had the same results as Brees if he had been NO's QB last night?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Pressure can be part of it, but do you think Cutler would have had the same results as Brees if he had been NO's QB last night?

My earlier post:

Sadly this is very true. I had a bad feeling about this game. Since 2009, I have far too many memories of packer defenses under Dom Capers allowing 40+ points when playing the elite QBs in the league. Warner, Brees, Manning, Brady, etc. The QBs who know where to go with the football before the snap always kill us. Against the next QB tier down, the defense usually plays very well. See 2010 superbowl run: Vick, Ryan, Culter, Big Ben. I know we are in for a long game when I see Brady, Manning, Brees, and now Kap and Wilson (b/c of read option). Avoid those five somehow in the playoffs and I think we have a decent chance at winning the superbowl.

[Patler]

My earlier post:

Sadly this is very true. I had a bad feeling about this game. Since 2009, I have far too many memories of packer defenses under Dom Capers allowing 40+ points when playing the elite QBs in the league. Warner, Brees, Manning, Brady, etc. The QBs who know where to go with the football before the snap always kill us. Against the next QB tier down, the defense usually plays very well. See 2010 superbowl run: Vick, Ryan, Culter, Big Ben. I know we are in for a long game when I see Brady, Manning, Brees, and now Kap and Wilson (b/c of read option). Avoid those five somehow in the playoffs and I think we have a decent chance at winning the superbowl.

On a grand scale, looking at more than just a game here and there, I don't thing the D plays better or worse depending on the QB they face. I think their play is very similar, but the results (and appearance) are often quite different. They can be exposed without actually playing worse.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

This is true. And I feel that the elite Qbs see those weaknesses and pick them apart. I remember Kurt Warner being extremely confident and almost cocky before that 2009 playoff game saying something along the lines of "he sees a lot of big plays coming." Maybe more man coverage and blitzs would help. We have the dbs and pass rushers. Giving these guys all day to throw and dropping into coverage doesn't seem to be working.

[pbmax]

Rodgers didn't look right for the remainder of the game. Adams didn't lose awarenes of where the first down was, he had to shift his momentum backward to catch the pass that was just a bit off. Rodgers at his best makes a better throw for the 1st down.

This. He was short on several balls including that 3rd down completion to Adams included. Poor replay spotting of ball aside, if they hit it clean, its a first down. As it turned out, 4th down run got stuffed.