More Banjo: @ Saints Week Oh Who the *$%&! Cares

[Patler]

There were two passes in particular I remember in which a receiver ended up totally uncovered. The announcers commented on it, I really can't remember why it was. I seem to have a bit of spot amnesia where last night is concerned

Sure there were. As I wrote in another post, there are usually some of those in every game. But I didn't see guys running absolutely clear all night long. Yes, they were "open" and Brees put it on the money all night long.

[Rutnstrut]

My earlier post:

Sadly this is very true. I had a bad feeling about this game. Since 2009, I have far too many memories of packer defenses under Dom Capers allowing 40+ points when playing the elite QBs in the league. Warner, Brees, Manning, Brady, etc. The QBs who know where to go with the football before the snap always kill us. Against the next QB tier down, the defense usually plays very well. See 2010 superbowl run: Vick, Ryan, Culter, Big Ben. I know we are in for a long game when I see Brady, Manning, Brees, and now Kap and Wilson (b/c of read option). Avoid those five somehow in the playoffs and I think we have a decent chance at winning the superbowl.

Actually you are spot on, not only about Dom and elite QB's but stubby vs good teams also. Stubby and Dom are continually out coached. Add to that the fact that Rodgers doesn't play his best, when the momentum isn't always in GB's favor. What you get is a complete clusterfuck. The coaching staff and TT are pissing away AR's best years. You have a QB like that, you do WHATEVER it takes to put the best players and coaches around him.

[smuggler]

That's depressing. :C

[denverYooper]

Actually you are spot on, not only about Dom and elite QB's but stubby vs good teams also. Stubby and Dom are continually out coached. Add to that the fact that Rodgers doesn't play his best, when the momentum isn't always in GB's favor. What you get is a complete clusterfuck. The coaching staff and TT are pissing away AR's best years. You have a QB like that, you do WHATEVER it takes to put the best players and coaches around him.

They have seemed to melt down in primetime (7pm CST) games vs non-division teams over the last few years (since the thumping by the Giants in the 2011 playoffs). I wasn't sure if that was just recency because of this year (Seattle, NO) or not, so I grabbed the last 2.5 years of primetime games to look at. Their record over that span in prime-time games vs non-division opponents is 1-4, with their one win coming over the Texans and their 4 losses coming by an average of 3 scores. If you add in the loss to SF in the playoffs at Lambeau, they're 1-5 with the avg diff dropping to 17.

Interestingly, though, all of their non-division primetime games have been away games. So they're also playing on the road every time. It's a very specific set of circumstances that they don't deal well in, and those circumstances arise when there are a lot of eyeballs on the game due to the time slot. It's something that they need to overcome to be successful in the playoffs again, unless they can somehow pull either home games or early games.

They're 4-1 vs division opponents in those games, and their division opponents have often been pretty good teams. They just haven't been able to deal well with playing non-division opponents, in primetime, on the road.

2012
09-13-2012 - Thursday night vs Chicago Bears (10-6), W 23-10
10-14-2012 - Sunday night @Texans (12-4) - W 42-24
11-25-2012 - Sunday night @Giants (9-7) - L 38-10
12-09-2012 - Sunday night vs Detroit Lions (4-12) - W 27-10
Playoffs:
01-05-2013 - Saturday night vs Minny Vikings (10-6) - W 24-10
01-12-2013 - Saturday night @San Fran (11-4-1) - L 45-31

2013
10-27-2013 - Sunday night @Minnesota (5-10-1) - W 44-31
11-04-2013 - Monday night vs Chicago (8-8) - L 27-21
Playoffs:
01-05-2014 - Sunday afternoon vs San Fran - L 23-20

2014
09-04-2014 - Thursday night @Seattle - L 36-16
10-26-2014 - Sunday night @NO - L 44-23

[denverYooper]

FWIW, over that span, the road team's record in primetime non-division games is 29-60, with an average margin of defeat of 15 points. Teams are 0-8 when visiting the Superdome with an average margin of defeat of 24 points.

So it's not a bottom-of-the-barrel performance from Green Bay by any means, and I don't think it means "Stubby always gets outcoached". They're close to average performance in those scenarios.

Still, to become a contender or considered elite again, they have to win some of those.

[Cleft Crusty]

What a shock that when the Packers lose, they lose to superior teams (49ers in the playoffs), teams that match up well with them (Giants), or when they lose Rodgers to injury (Bears, possibly could argue New Orleans). And Shocking that the networks would want to broadcast playoff games, games pitting the better teams against one another, and teams with good QBs who can score the ball.

To repeat: Very good teams like the Packers routinely beat the teams they should and are in most of their games. They lose to better teams, in the playoffs, and to teams that match up well with them (i.e. can rush the passer with four and drop up to 7 in coverage), or when they are injured. There is no secret to why the Packers lose certain games.

Clefty thought he would never hear the idiotic, panic-stricken, naive, pathetic "They are wasting the best years of so-and-so's career" comment again, but being moronic and irrationally emotive are hallmarks of the worst of fandom. Great players make their teams great, which improves their records, and dramatically reduces their ability to obtain more great players in the draft, hurting their chances of winning. This is what the NFL wants - mediocrity and competitive games across the schedule. This shouldn't be a forgotten truth by so many fans, but alas Clefty should be used to insane, petulant, tantrum-throwing, permanently adolescent fans by now.

[ThunderDan]

FWIW, over that span, the road team's record in primetime non-division games is 29-60, with an average margin of defeat of 15 points. Teams are 0-8 when visiting the Superdome with an average margin of defeat of 24 points.

So it's not a bottom-of-the-barrel performance from Green Bay by any means, and I don't think it means "Stubby always gets outcoached". They're close to average performance in those scenarios.

Still, to become a contender or considered elite again, they have to win some of those.

DY-

You missed the fail Mary game from 2012 on your list. Of course I am not sure where you would put it.

-TD

[Fritz]

What a shock that when the Packers lose, they lose to superior teams (49ers in the playoffs), teams that match up well with them (Giants), or when they lose Rodgers to injury (Bears, possibly could argue New Orleans). And Shocking that the networks would want to broadcast playoff games, games pitting the better teams against one another, and teams with good QBs who can score the ball.

To repeat: Very good teams like the Packers routinely beat the teams they should and are in most of their games. They lose to better teams, in the playoffs, and to teams that match up well with them (i.e. can rush the passer with four and drop up to 7 in coverage), or when they are injured. There is no secret to why the Packers lose certain games.

Clefty thought he would never hear the idiotic, panic-stricken, naive, pathetic "They are wasting the best years of so-and-so's career" comment again, but being moronic and irrationally emotive are hallmarks of the worst of fandom. Great players make their teams great, which improves their records, and dramatically reduces their ability to obtain more great players in the draft, hurting their chances of winning. This is what the NFL wants - mediocrity and competitive games across the schedule. This shouldn't be a forgotten truth by so many fans, but alas Clefty should be used to insane, petulant, tantrum-throwing, permanently adolescent fans by now.

Call me petulant, call me adolescent, call me what you will, but the eternal pictures in my mind from that game are, first, that of Drew Brees dropping back, looking....and looking....and looking. Ordering a sandwich, and looking some more. Then finding - gasp! - an open receiver.n The second picture is that of watching the Packer defensive linemen and linebackers being walled off like 98 lb weaklings while Mark Ingram rumbled past.


Man, that was like watching a flashback to the 2011 defense. Ugly. Yes, Cutler would've splintered that defense. You give a second-tier QB that kind of time, and he'll find guys open.

[ThunderDan]

Call me petulant, call me adolescent, call me what you will, but the eternal pictures in my mind from that game are, first, that of Drew Brees dropping back, looking....and looking....and looking. Ordering a sandwich, and looking some more. Then finding - gasp! - an open receiver.n The second picture is that of watching the Packer defensive linemen and linebackers being walled off like 98 lb weaklings while Mark Ingram rumbled past.


Man, that was like watching a flashback to the 2011 defense. Ugly. Yes, Cutler would've splintered that defense. You give a second-tier QB that kind of time, and he'll find guys open.

Except we did play Cutler a few weeks back and won with that D. Of course he did throw for a lot of yards too.

[denverYooper]

DY-

You missed the fail Mary game from 2012 on your list. Of course I am not sure where you would put it.

-TD

'

You're right. I don't know how to count that one.

[Patler]

Except we did play Cutler a few weeks back and won with that D. Of course he did throw for a lot of yards too.

Yes and no. Maybe the same scheme, but with Dante Jones who had a sack against the Bears, Shields who had an interception against the Bears and Burnett who had 13 tackles against the Bears.

[ThunderDan]

Yes and no. Maybe the same scheme, but with Dante Jones who had a sack against the Bears, Shields who had an interception against the Bears and Burnett who had 13 tackles against the Bears.

I did mention in the Game Day thread that Burnett would have gotten to the deep bomb that went for a TD while Hyde was 4 feet short.

[esoxx]

What a shock that when the Packers lose, they lose to superior teams (49ers in the playoffs), teams that match up well with them (Giants), or when they lose Rodgers to injury (Bears, possibly could argue New Orleans). And Shocking that the networks would want to broadcast playoff games, games pitting the better teams against one another, and teams with good QBs who can score the ball.

To repeat: Very good teams like the Packers routinely beat the teams they should and are in most of their games. They lose to better teams, in the playoffs, and to teams that match up well with them (i.e. can rush the passer with four and drop up to 7 in coverage), or when they are injured. There is no secret to why the Packers lose certain games.

Clefty thought he would never hear the idiotic, panic-stricken, naive, pathetic "They are wasting the best years of so-and-so's career" comment again, but being moronic and irrationally emotive are hallmarks of the worst of fandom. Great players make their teams great, which improves their records, and dramatically reduces their ability to obtain more great players in the draft, hurting their chances of winning. This is what the NFL wants - mediocrity and competitive games across the schedule. This shouldn't be a forgotten truth by so many fans, but alas Clefty should be used to insane, petulant, tantrum-throwing, permanently adolescent fans by now.

Gee, thanks Crusty the Clown. I make you a thread post-game asking for your learned expert opinions and you're a no-show. Now I find you in here trashing the good and hearty fans of the Green Bay Packers.

Also, don't you have anything better to do with your time than following around an 80's band while soiling your Depends?

[Fritz]

Except we did play Cutler a few weeks back and won with that D. Of course he did throw for a lot of yards too.

Yes, but I was referring to the question above as to whether a second-tier QB could've done as well as Brees did. My point is that if you give even a second tier QB the kind of time Brees had, he'd tear up that defense.

So if you gave Jay Cutler the time Brees had, I believe he'd tear up your D. When the Packers played the Bears, VaJayJay didn't have that kind of time.

[Patler]

I did mention in the Game Day thread that Burnett would have gotten to the deep bomb that went for a TD while Hyde was 4 feet short.

I will always wonder how different the defense might have been, and how playoff results might have differed, if the starting safeties the last four years were Burnett and Collins.