heroes and goats

[Pugger]

You are forgetting Barclay. We have solid depth until Barclay and Tretter went down.

Thankfully Tretter will be back after the bye.

[Pugger]

Ill mention tramon again. His inability to jump was exposed last week. The saints paid attention and took advantage of that 2 or 3 times that i saw last night.

Bigger wrs dont even need to jump with him on them

I don't think Tramon is 100% yet and Brees picked on House mercilessly.

[Pugger]

I thought the Peppers play was clever. McCarthy rarely shows any creativity, as he is a dull moor, so its nice to see a clever play out of him other than the "Raji fullback gut freezer X."

The D couldn't stop Brees or that no name RB. Shoulda onsided after every score. Woulda prevented the Saints O from milking too much of the clock.

That pass to Peppers was executed perfectly except Julius dropped it. Not many D's stop Brees unless they can rush the passer and we failed at that last night.

[pbmax]

I totally agree with this.

Start with Capers... Reportedly, Capers game plans to stop either the run or the pass, depending upon the opponent. This game, the defense stopped neither the run nor the pass. Mark Ingram rushed for 172 yards, for crying out loud. You can't beat a team with an elite QB by letting them rush for those kind of numbers.

They came out after halftime in single high safety to stop Ingram. The result was Graham going off and then the deep game got involved. So there were adjustments and they made the situation worse. What defensive alignment would you suggest that Capers deploy instead?

All you suggest is for Capers, against one of the five best QB and one of the 3 best passing attacks to focus on the run. That approach allowed NO to score 30 points in a half. I prefer letting Ingram rush for 100 in a half and allow 16 points total because they had trouble getting into the end zone from the red zone as well.

How about this instead? The only Packer defenders who get clear off blocks on a regular basis are Peppers and Matthews. Add in the deep safety and that is three guys free to make a correct form tackle. The deep safety is usually a rookie.

Eight other guys are in the process of being tied into knots by their blocker and cannot disengage. Some never get loose, some get one hand free, some dive at the ground trying to bury the block or trip the ball carrier. But guess what those 8 guys look like when they try to tackle? They look like players who cannot employ fundamentals to make a tackle. McCarthy mentioned this today in his presser.

But I don't think its tackling fundamentals. Its defeating the blocker across from you and disengaging at the correct moment. That had been happening in the previous 4 games, it didn't last night.

The question isn't whether Capers is dumb or the scapegoat for his game plan. Do the Packers have the players who can play a scheme he can coach? After that one game, it looks again like a colossal mismatch. And it has seemed that way whenever they meet a team they cannot turn into a one dimensional opponent.

The DC will always take the fall, but the brain trust has to figure out how to match the players to a coach's scheme. It hasn't happened since they had Collins, Woodson and Matthews at his peak health.

[pbmax]

The other alternative is that the Asstants on D cannot coach how to defeat a block. Its possible, but while there are some thin coaching pedigrees on the offense, the D has some guys who have had major success before. Results don't match though.

The worst failing on defense beside tackling was pass rush. It disappeared in the second half. Despite Peppers, its still way too intermittent to protect the backend.

[Joemailman]

The DC will always take the fall, but the brain trust has to figure out how to match the players to a coach's scheme. It hasn't happened since they had Collins, Woodson and Matthews at his peak health.

So, the scheme only works if you have at least 3 Pro Bowlers on your defense? In addition to those, I would add that Tramon and Raji had career years in 2010. There are teams that play respectable defense with less. At times, the defense has looked like they've turned a corner, and then you have a performance like last night. Halfway through the season, the defense is still a bit of a mystery.

[Patler]

The pass to Peppers was a joke. You've got two of the top WR in the league, a sure-handed rookie, and Quarless who caught the same pass two weeks earlier to win the game against the Dolphins. Instead, Rodgers throws a bullet to an elephant LB. I'm assuming Stubby made the call. I'm assuming they spent valuable game-prep time practicing it. My only question is: Why?

Then, for some unknown reason, Stubby decides to get cute with an onsides kick, giving Brees the ball in Packer territory. Again, why? You're 3 points yup. The offense is moving the ball. It's early. Why?

I also disliked the pass to Peppers. I don't like passes to OT's playing TE, or handoffs to DT's playing FB for the same reasons. These are guys not comfortable with handling the ball. If they are there because injuries have decimated a position, that's one thing. But a bullet pass to Peppers when you have three able-bodied TE's on your roster? Why?

I'm not as opposed to the onside kick. Crosby is pretty good at them, and it is a surprise that has worked in the past. But it seemed kind of early to tell the defense that you have no faith in their ability to stop the Saints, so you are resorting to trickery to steal a possession.

[Patler]

I thought the Peppers play was clever. McCarthy rarely shows any creativity, as he is a dull moor, so its nice to see a clever play out of him other than the "Raji fullback gut freezer X."

How is that clever? You split him out wide and throw to him? Clever might be lining him up in the backfield, or as a TIGHT end, positions in which the D might expect him to block, then freeing him up for a pass. Splitting him wide and throwing to him is not clever at all.

[pbmax]

So, the scheme only works if you have at least 3 Pro Bowlers on your defense? In addition to those, I would add that Tramon and Raji had career years in 2010. There are teams that play respectable defense with less. At times, the defense has looked like they've turned a corner, and then you have a performance like last night. Halfway through the season, the defense is still a bit of a mystery.

Its only in the top 8 (25%) in the League with 3 Pro Bowlers and 2 near Pro Bowlers, yes. That kind of goes with the territory.

I would tend to think that defenses doing much more with less (say the Cowboys this year) in a non-fluke, non-no film, new scheme way are actually more talented that people realize at the time (see Packers D in 2009).

But its possible Capers scheme yields huge variability when poorly executed. And I believe its been poorly executed. Even the players who have been lauded in this short season have been very up and down (Matthews, Daniels, Peppers, Shields). Ironically, the most consistent might be Burnett. In the front seven, who was free and clear to make a tackle versus Ingram last night? All the missed blocks, other than dives by filling DBs, were guys that couldn't get off their blocks.

wist might get his wish because I am not sure that any nickel he throws out there this year can defend the run. So it will only be of use when they have a good lead later in the game. The only problem is that when they ran 3-4 in the second half after getting gashed on the ground again, it was just as leaky.

[pbmax]

How is that clever? You split him out wide and throw to him? Clever might be lining him up in the backfield, or as a TIGHT end, positions in which the D might expect him to block, then freeing him up for a pass. Splitting him wide and throwing to him is not clever at all.

As the WR is a former basketball guy who is 6' 7", I would have preferred a jump ball thrown to him. The slant was weird. You have to know how to cut off your DB and extend to catch.

[channtheman]

For all the talk of how great Cobb has been in the red zone (and he has), did we throw to him even ONCE in the red zone last night? I don't recall any. I liked the early onside kick and even contemplated doing it every time as we never stopped them between the 20's either. I also liked the 4th down decision, but absolutely hated the call. As soon as I could tell he was going to run, I knew we weren't going to get it. Lacy looked great in the screen game. It'd be nice if we could utiize that a bit more this season. He had a couple of nice catches on at least one occasion when the ball was behind him.

The genius of the NFL coach is a myth though. Sean Payton early in the 2nd half went for it on 4th down as well by running twice up the middle. The first time lost 2 yards, the second got no gain. 2 guys, same mistake. I thought both HC should have passed in those situations.

[channtheman]

As the WR is a former basketball guy who is 6' 7", I would have preferred a jump ball thrown to him. The slant was weird. You have to know how to cut off your DB and extend to catch.

It felt like the Packers were hoping the Saints would think we would do that, and were hoping to fool the Saints by having Peppers run a slant. It should have worked, but Peppers dropped the pass.

[Patler]

As the WR is a former basketball guy who is 6' 7", I would have preferred a jump ball thrown to him. The slant was weird. You have to know how to cut off your DB and extend to catch.

Problem is, he is a former basketball player of about 100 years ago. I think he played with Naismith using a peach basket, didn't he? Not sure it means a lot anymore after 15 years or so playing and training as a D lineman.

[Patler]

It should have worked, but Peppers dropped the pass.

But that is exactly the issue, relying on a guy who is unaccustomed to handling the ball, and expecting him to cleanly catch a hard pass from Rodgers. When you you see OTs and others getting passes from a TE or FB position, it tends to be lob they can handle. I know, Peppers is a tremendous athlete, but the fact is he dropped a very catchable ball for a person accustomed to catching.

[channtheman]

But that is exactly the issue, relying on a guy who is unaccustomed to handling the ball, and expecting him to cleanly catch a hard pass from Rodgers. When you you see OTs and others getting passes from a TE or FB position, it tends to be lob they can handle. I know, Peppers is a tremendous athlete, but the fact is he dropped a very catchable ball for a person accustomed to catching.

I don't disagree with you. I was puzzled when we didn't go for a pass to Cobb, considering how good he has been for us in the red zone.