Big Mac

[pbmax]

How in God's green earth does more time help on 4th down?

[woodbuck27]

Yes, that would be assinine.

My point is they should have been playing for TD the whole drive.

You (you all) surely heard Mike McCarthy in his post game presser. He said some ho hum boring stuff. He was his usual dour 'Mr. Cliché' self.

When asked this question:

Among loss's where does this sit in your career?

Mike McCarthy's response:

"This was an excellent game to play in, this was a fun game to play in.... it was competitive you know...it was everything we thought it would be...ahh so .... none of them are easy."

"this was a fun game" Mike McCarthy

Comment:

He sure didn't look like he was having fun.

Then looking at it now I have to assume that's evidently how Mike McCarthy wanted to keep it. To keep it 'fun'.

Playing for the TD in the final drive and to win that game.... instead of the FG to tie and losing control in OT to the luck of a coin toss.

Wouldn't that (to play for a TD) have taken the fun out of that game? Wouldn't that be too sensible!?

His team (Our team...the Green Bay Packers) would have won it by driving for a TD !

My message to Mike McCarthy:

Screw the fun thing Mike...You play to win Mike McCarthy... not tie.

[Harlan Huckleby]

How in God's green earth does more time help on 4th down?

It doesn't and that is not point. You have an entirely different series when you are playing aggressively for TD rather than FG.

[pbmax]

With 19 seconds left at the 26 (assuming they got a first and called TO then), they have 2 TO to take 3 shots into the end zone, one of which can be in the field of play.

[King Friday]

No, the fake FG was an act of desperation. If they mucked it up, they need two TDs and two conversions just to tie. If they kick the FG, they need two scores - a TD and FG to tie. Carroll gambled a bout there and Hawk played into his hands, regardless of what people say about Jones.

So you haven't read any of the articles on the topic that it was a pre-planned play crafted around the incompetence of Slocum and his schemes?

[King Friday]

Nothing about that game was fun.

McCarthy is starting to greatly discredit himself.

Raise of hands...who thinks Vince Lombardi would've described that game as "fun"?

[pbmax]

So you haven't read any of the articles on the topic that it was a pre-planned play crafted around the incompetence of Slocum and his schemes?

Do they call it if ahead by 9 points?

[woodbuck27]

Or if they use timeouts in final regulation drive - go for win instead of tie.

if if if

No killer instinct.

Harlan didn't you get.... or aren't you taking the Green Bay Packer organization 'stupid pills' that were mailed to your address?

Please.

Smarten up and just simply cut these members a break; instead of applying more pressure for their 'damage control' program.

[King Friday]

Do they call it if ahead by 9 points?

Yes....because the additional 3 when up by 9 isn't very meaningful. At 9...it is barely a 2 score game. At 12, it is only modestly more of a 2 score game...as we found out on Sunday.

My point is that it was not pure desperation. It was pre-planned based on a deemed strategic weakness in Slocum's unit. If they were willing to call off the fake based on the positioning of Brad Jones, then they ran the fake PRECISELY because they thought it had an excellent chance of success.

[vince]

Not calling timeouts on drive means you are not even trying to play for endzone, you are satisfied to play for 3.

We can't replay game, it would have been totally different series with timeouts called and aggressive hurry-up. The point is we saw one more anal puckering.

Wow. My faith in the human race has just taken another hit. I wouldn't even know where to start with that. So much wrong in so few words.

[King Friday]

If anything, it was the extreme lack of mental toughness that led to this collapse.

Have you EVER heard this from McCarthy?

"I know we demand a lot and this isn't an easy place to play, and I'm not an easy guy to play for, but they have tried to respond. I give them a lot of credit for that."

“It’s a tough place to play. We demand a lot out of ourselves -- our coaches, our players. We don’t accept just an average performance, or not doing our best."

That is how Bill Belichick describes his approach to building a "tough" football team. My take is that McCarthy isn't anywhere near as demanding. At times, that can be a good thing, especially with veteran players who understand how to carry themselves. However, I feel that McCarthy might be a little TOO lenient at times, and it wears off on the rookies and kids. Hopefully, he will use this challenging loss to review how he approaches building "toughness" and take some steps to foster greater mental "toughness" in the years ahead.

[hoosier]

If anything, it was the extreme lack of mental toughness that led to this collapse.

Have you EVER heard this from McCarthy?

"I know we demand a lot and this isn't an easy place to play, and I'm not an easy guy to play for, but they have tried to respond. I give them a lot of credit for that."

“It’s a tough place to play. We demand a lot out of ourselves -- our coaches, our players. We don’t accept just an average performance, or not doing our best."

That is how Bill Belichick describes his approach to building a "tough" football team. My take is that McCarthy isn't anywhere near as demanding. At times, that can be a good thing, especially with veteran players who understand how to carry themselves. However, I feel that McCarthy might be a little TOO lenient at times, and it wears off on the rookies and kids. Hopefully, he will use this challenging loss to review how he approaches building "toughness" and take some steps to foster greater mental "toughness" in the years ahead.

I once knew a guy who decided that his nephews were not tough enough because sometimes they came home from school complaining that other kids were picking on them. Uncle told them to buck up and punch the bullies in the nose next time they bothered them. The kids didn't do it, and next time they came home crying he decided to take them on a hike across the Grand Canyon with no water in mid July. That'll toughen em up.

[Bossman641]

The Cobb completion should have been the first timeout taken. And from there, who knows how gamne plays out in our counter factual world. For sure you lost 20 seconds right there, and you aren't playing to end game with TD.

You make a very good case for McCarthy's conservative game management here. A good case can be made for all 40 of his conservative moves. You look at the whole body, and you see a play-scared tone, and the players picked up on that.

(Another bad moment, rushing 2 on Seattle's 3rd and 19 play following Matthews getting piled on. Why go into prevent when D is working all day?)

I see going on 4th down, surprise onside kicks, etc as aggressive moves that you make when you think your team is weaker and needs to steal a possession. MM didn't feel that way, and he shouldn't have given how the game was going.

We haven't been especially good on third and short in the red zone.

[pbmax]

Yes....because the additional 3 when up by 9 isn't very meaningful. At 9...it is barely a 2 score game. At 12, it is only modestly more of a 2 score game...as we found out on Sunday.

My point is that it was not pure desperation. It was pre-planned based on a deemed strategic weakness in Slocum's unit. If they were willing to call off the fake based on the positioning of Brad Jones, then they ran the fake PRECISELY because they thought it had an excellent chance of success.

They were down three scores. It was pure desperation.

Pre-planned off film yes. But that doesn't guarantee it gets called in a game. Coaching staffs prepare special plays for tight situations every week. But they don't call them if they don't have to. You don't see a hook and ladder every week, or team wide laterals. You save them so they are available when you are desperate, like the Seahawks were Sunday.

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/289199881.html

LeRoy Butler and Tom Silverstein did awesome job of breaking down game. Some highlights:

MM's playcalling is defensible if you analyze each given call. But he is accountable for the whole team playing not to lose.

The theme for 2015 must be more aggression.

Hawk totally blew the fake field goal. But both Hawk and Bostick's blunders are symptomatic of lack of special teams coaching.

An overlooked failure is Kuhn falling short of goal line. Fault is with Tretter, he missed easy block. (My opinion: Tretter was big disapointment in 2014-15)

The failure to attack wounded Thomas & Sherman is not on MM so much as a team wide failure of communication.

Much excellent analysis of breakdowns in secondary on long completions.