Official Packers vs. Chargers Game Day Thread

[Harlan Huckleby]

There is no way they get the ball set in less than 10 seconds more like 15-20.

It may take 30 seconds when the ball is out of bounds, the refs are in no hurry. Watch an inbounds play - the refs place the ball very quickly because it matters, the clock is running.

As Sharpie points out, DRod was heading to sidelines because that angle gave him the greatest yardage opportunity. If you want to say he could get more yardage by cutting inside, fine, that is fair criticism if it is true. But the clock is not an important part of the play at that point in the game. Yardage and points still matter with more possessions almost certain to come. It's a 100% sure that calling Rodgers dumb there is dumb.

Play the "dumb" card inside 5 minutes when out-of-bounds actually completely stops the clock.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Again up 4, Midfield, fresh set of downs, 5-6 minutes to go I'm quite sure the book says you want the clock running.

Yes, you don't want to stop the clock. But there were 6 minutes left, so going out of bounds doesn't really stop the clock, the ball gets reset and the offense gets to burn a full play clock.

You are splitting hairs in the heat of an athletic competition where the players are trying to get yardage and score more points. Inside of 5 minutes, different story.

[yetisnowman]

Yes, you don't want to stop the clock. But there were 6 minutes left, so going out of bounds doesn't really stop the clock, the ball gets reset and the offense gets to burn a full play clock.

You are splitting hairs in the heat of an athletic competition where the players are trying to get yardage and score more points. Inside of 5 minutes, different story.

Fair enough. My understanding is a longer play away from the center of the field with a pile of big bodies takes significantly longer than say a two yard run up the middle, in terms of the refs getting and setting the ball and starting the clock.

[yetisnowman]

The play started at 6:14
The next play started at 5:51

So if the play clock and game clock don't start until the ball is spotted by the official on the sidelines (given it was not 5 min left), how is it DickRod's fault? Both clocks should have started at the same time. Unless the play clock started when the ref had the spot on the sidelines and the game clock didn't start until the ball was set on the hashmark on the field and the official signaled a start to the game clock.

How long would it have taken for the pass play in total? Like 7 seconds before he goes out of bounds? If that's the case, he didn't go out until the 6:07 mark. Why did the Pack run another play only 16 seconds later?

If the play clock was at 1 or 2 seconds (which would be common for a team milking the clock) when the next play started, that would mean that the refs took 23 seconds to set the ball at the hashmarks and start the game clock from when DickRod ran out of bounds and the sideline official set the ball on the sidelines from where he ran out of bounds. That doesn't seem plausible to me.

Unless we can see the play clock from the play, to me it seems like the Pack snapped the ball too soon on the following play.

They did. They snapped the ball with 15 seconds left on the play clock. I used a stop watch most basic cell phones have one. It was 25 seconds between the time the game clock stopped and then started again. Now what time was truly lost by going out of bounds you never really know, my educated guess would be between 10-15 seconds. But I guess them not milking the playclock further establishes what their approach was. I'm ok with it.

[channtheman]

Not with 7 minutes left in close game! There are going to be a couple more changes of possession, going for yardage and points is still paramount.

You can make argument (a weak one, I would say) that shutting-down is fine with 7 minutes to go in a close game. There is zero argument for calling a player "dumb" for playing aggressive in that situation rather than killing a few extra seconds.

It's not about shutting down. I'm a firm believer in sticking with your offense and hate the run run pass punt combo. However, up 4 against an offense that is moving the ball at will against your defense, and only 6:30 left in the game, you should be working that clock to end this game. You don't have to change your offense, you simply play to run as much clock as possible, and if that means going down on your own one yard short of what you would get going out of bounds, I'm all for it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

However, up 4 against an offense that is moving the ball at will against your defense, and only 6:30 left in the game, you should be working that clock to end this game.

They were. The ball gets spotted very quickly on an in-bounds play, less than 5 seconds. Staying inbounds is not a big deal with > 5 minutes to play.
There is still a lot of time left, the other team is going to get a possession. Field position and scoring is top priority.

[channtheman]

They were. The ball gets spotted very quickly on an in-bounds play, less than 5 seconds. Staying inbounds is not a big deal with > 5 minutes to play.
There is still a lot of time left, the other team is going to get a possession. Field position and scoring is top priority.

I agree. I just wish we could have burned even more time just so SD can't sit back and have plenty of time with all their timeouts on their possession. Our defense was struggling to stop them in part because the offense couldn't stay on the field. How much does it matter? Obviously we won and we're all happy so it didn't matter this game. Dick Rod probably would get hurt or fumble if he tried to make an unnatural move as well.

I suppose my main argument is, keep your normal offense and move the ball. Just milk that clock even more than you might usually. Oddly enough, Rodgers was actually snapping before 1 second on the play clock, as he often does during the normal course of the game.

[pbmax]

They were. The ball gets spotted very quickly on an in-bounds play, less than 5 seconds. Staying inbounds is not a big deal with > 5 minutes to play.
There is still a lot of time left, the other team is going to get a possession. Field position and scoring is top priority.

We need the tape. yeti is claiming there was a 25 second game clock stoppage.

[Harlan Huckleby]

We need the tape. yeti is claiming there was a 25 second game clock stoppage.

Right, but he has come to his senses: the time stoppage on an out-of-bounds play is irrelevant, the clock is stopped. The refs hurry on inbounds plays only 'cause it matters. The play clock starts very quickly, typically 5 secs or even less.

[3irty1]

I have just a couple of thoughts after this game.

This must have been how it felt to play us in 2011. Ignore the run and make it rain anyways. Credit to Rivers and his weapons where credit is due; some stuff just can't be defended.

However unlike us in 2011, they started the game like cornered animals and never really lost that gamblers desperation whether it meant forgoing the fieldgoal on 4th down, forcing the ball to anything deemed a mismatch, and swinging for the fences with their fits on defense. Rivers tested his luck and his luck was pretty good more often than not.

Three man rush is a dirty word around here but when it proved effective in 2010, it was precisely in situations like those in this game. When Rivers is unloading the ball in three tenths of a second there it is no use bringing six. Instead why not do the football equivalent of a change up? Drop the house and clog some passing lanes just to make sure Phil isn't deciding where to go with the ball before the snap. At least make him question his internal clock.

I think we are going to look back fondly for years at the Randall and Montgomery picks.

[pbmax]

Right, but he has come to his senses: the time stoppage on an out-of-bounds play is irrelevant, the clock is stopped. The refs hurry on inbounds plays only 'cause it matters. The play clock starts very quickly, typically 5 secs or even less.

Let's time some after the bye. I might as well ride this out.

[pbmax]

I have just a couple of thoughts after this game.

...

Three man rush is a dirty word around here but when it proved effective in 2010, it was precisely in situations like those in this game. When Rivers is unloading the ball in three tenths of a second there it is no use bringing six. Instead why not do the football equivalent of a change up? Drop the house and clog some passing lanes just to make sure Phil isn't deciding where to go with the ball before the snap. At least make him question his internal clock.

I think we are going to look back fondly for years at the Randall and Montgomery picks.

I agree on the 3 man rush.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Regarding play clock: on inbounds play, the play clock actually starts instantaneously with the end of the previous play, runs for 40 seconds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play_clock

So there is not even a slight benefit to staying in bounds outside of 5 minutes.

Edit: But is the play clock only 25 seconds after an out-of-bounds play? Hmmm, that would change things, just don't know.

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/7_Rule4_Game_Timing.pdf

Section 6, article 2 (Christ, am I really doing this?) the play clock is only 25 seconds for
(a) a change of possession;
(b) a charged team timeout;
(c) the two-minute warning;
(d) the expiration of a period;
(e) a penalty enforcement;
(f) a Try; or
(g) a Free Kick.

(What the hell is a "Try"?)

So I guess the play clock is 40 seconds for generic out-of-bounds play.

[hoosier]

Agree to disagree I guess. I could come up with scenarios where it makes sense to burn clock on that possession. I have yet to hear why it makes sense to hurdle out of bounds gaining no yardage. You can't just throw game/clock management out the window and say "Well we suck on offense and defense so these 20 seconds aren't going to matter" We should have a td on the last drive, then SD is down two scores and clock plus timeouts could certainly be a factor. I mean you have to play and coach with the mentality that the details do matter otherwise why suit up?

It makes sense to hurdle instead of going down because you stand to pick up a few extra yards that way. There, now you've heard it.