WR Routes

[Bossman641]

Went into this season thinking that Rodgers made the wide receivers better than they actually are. I mistakenly thought that the loss of Nelson would be easily covered by Rodgers' accuracy and the emergence of Adams. Defenses have pretty quickly learned that double covering Cobb and man coverage on the rest of the receivers is a formula to victory. Rodgers refuses to throw to a covered receiver in order to avoid the interception and, whether it's mental or physical, his accuracy has been ordinary---better than Newton, much worse than Brady. Until the last couple of games, I thought the OL was part of the problem. I've changed my opinion on that, they held up and gave a very clean pocket and the results have been the same. Around 50% completions, no YAC, no deep balls with any chance of completion, every accurate throw contested, and almost every drive stalling after a couple of first downs.

I remember the biggest complaint in past seasons being the attempted long pass on 3rd and short. Our staple play of a 5 yard pass with a 10 yard YAC has been replaced with a 1 yard pass and immediate tackle to R Rodgers, or a throw away pass out of bounds. If not for screen passes, I don't think Rodgers would have had 100 yards. It would have been Denver all over again.

The offense SEEMS to have fixed the problem with the run game, but for 7 games, they have not come up with a fix for our passing game. I'm really beginning to believe they will not come up with a fix. Adams is what he is, a receiver with average hands, little speed, below average route running ability, no ability to cause separation from the defender. Jones has good hands, below average speed, below average route running ability, and cannot separate from the defender. Cobb is a good slot receiver with good quickness but below average deep speed, He's never been a route runner, and his hands are average to below average. Single covered he can generate YAC, double covered, he's no factor. R Rodgers has good hands, poor speed, actually can get open on short routes, but has the least YAC ability of anyone on the team. He's a master of the 0 to 3 yard pass. The bench of Montgomery, Abbredaris, and Janis, either are too raw or too injury prone to make much difference in the passing attack. We focus on Janis because of his speed, but it's pretty telling that he can't get on the field given the collection of inferior talent that's ahead of him on the depth chart.

Announcers say our offense is out of sync. I think the problem is the players, not the plays. Rodgers has lost accuracy and may have lost confidence in his very pedestrian corps of receivers. Really no easy fix. We can scheme a guy open once in a while, but the defense will counter that scheme and stop it pretty quickly. The players have to beat their man and that just isn't happening. Think of it this way. Nelson took a double team and was able to make plays. Cobb was single covered and could free lance. He usually had the #3 corner on him and he could beat him. Adams had either the #1 corner who took him out of the game or the #2 corner whom he sometimes could beat. This team has Adams facing the #1 corner whom he can't beat. Cobb facing the #3 corner with safety help and he doesn't get open. Jones facing the #2 corner and sometimes he gets 100 yards and sometimes he gets nothing. I just don't see a magic fix for our problems.

Yep, good analysis of the WR's. I just wish they would use bunch formations or motion, something. Think of how often we see the opposition bunch WR's and how often a guy comes open due to somebody blowing coverage (i.e. the TD to Miller last night). We rarely do that, and when we have it has worked. Montgomery scored TD against Rams when he and Cobb lined up next to each other and both DB's followed Cobb. Montgomery had the entire middle of the field to himself.

[LEWCWA]

the back shoulder balls to jordy aren't there that I have seen this season....get db's thinking back shoulder then you can beat them deep...also when I see a guy running free deep Rodgers has been missing them badly....and well 5-6 drops a game don't help either.....I would get Janis open on some slants force feed him balls on slants and outs.....if he could show he could make those plays you could get him open deep a couple times a game. Monty was really developing into the guy that was replacing Jordy....we need him back big time, but it might be too late...

[Bretsky]

ok, maybe it is all adams fault

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...adams-problem/

Was at the game last night; random thoughts

Adams needs to be a #3 WR; he runs average routes at best and his hands are erratic

Cobb is on and off with his routes; seems to turn his effort on and off as well

Janis and Jones routes are completed shit; Jones makes a rounded circle over a sharp cut. Janis just runs crappy routes and it's no wonder AROD doesn't trust the guy. I wouldn't either.

This team missed Abby and Montgomery; many dig on Abby but he's a very crisp, reliable, and solid route runner. He just can't stay healthy. Montgomery I thought was a pretty good route runner as well.

[Bretsky]

ONE MORE THING; ALLEN ROBINSON WOULD LOOK GOOD IN GREEN AND GOLD

[mraynrand]

This team missed Abby and Montgomery; many dig on Abby but he's a very crisp, reliable, and solid route runner. He just can't stay healthy. Montgomery I thought was a pretty good route runner as well.

Nah. people were pretty amped about Abracadabra. You can tell he has skills. I was at the SD game when Monty got hurt. Somehow, that was the final straw for the offense. They've been in a funk ever since. I really think it's the overall skill level at depth. Adams, Cobb, Abra, Monty, and Jones/Janis is a pretty decent five man WR group (switch Jones and Janis out for possession/fly pattern). But they need all that depth because Adams and Cobb are not #1 receivers. Adams has a chance to be a #1 assuming he's still not 100% at the ankle and gets hand transplants.

[beveaux1]

The Packers usual formation calls for 2 outside receivers that I'll call #1 and #2, and a slot receiver that I'll call #3. Last year's primary receivers were #1 Nelson, #2 Adams, and #3 Cobb. Adams replaced Boykin who had replaced Jones who left as a free agent. The outside receivers learn the option routes in McCarthy's version of the west coast based upon defensive scheme (man, zone, 2 deep coverage, blitz packages, etc) as well as the technique of the DB (inside position, outside position, trail, etc). Based upon what we've seen for the past 24 years of this offense, it takes around 3 years for an outside receiver to contribute heavily in this offense. Slot receivers are a little different. They appear to do less route running and a little bit more free form running. At least with Cobb, it took until his 2nd year to have an impact on the offense. A receiver with very little big college experience takes longer to develop. Driver took more than 4 years to develop. I suspect that Janis falls into that category. The injury to Nelson was extremely significant. McCarthy and Rodgers expected Adams to move into the #1 position. They acquired Jones to take the #2 position, with Cobb at #3.

Rodgers talked at length before the season about what a big leap Adams had made and expected great success with him. Unfortunately, early in the season, Adams went down with an ankle, and McCarthy had to shift on the fly. He moved Cobb to #1, Jones at #2, and pushed the development of Montgomery at #3. Defenses doubled Cobb, left one defender on Jones, and a #3 CB or a LB on Montgomery. Jones had some success and we started to see Montgomery developing as a short threat. Adams came back, but at the same time Montgomery went down with an ankle. I feel like the plan would have been to use Montgomery and Cobb as slots and reduce playing time for R Rodgers. Adams took a couple of games to get back into the flow and Cobb started seeing doubles as a slot receiver. That was the start of our offensive misery.

I believe they game planned in the Detroit game to target Adams against a relatively week secondary. The purpose was to establish Adams as a genuine #1. In subsequent games, Adams would receive some doubles and Cobb would be able to revert to his role from last year. That plan backfired as Adams suffered drops, no YAC, and an inability to separate from a lone defender, as well as some mis-run routes due to not being on the same page as Rodgers. I believe Rodgers all but called him by saying more time should be spent during the week on preparation and being professional. I forgot to add that Abredaris was called to duty to replace Montgomery in one game in order to test the 2 slot receiver concept, but his fragility came back to stop that experiment even though we had some success.

I'm going to stop short of calling Adams a bust. He's in his 2nd year, in a crash course due to injury, in a program that usually takes 3 years of preparation. Maybe, if Montgomery or Abredaris comes back, we can try the 2 slot receiver look, and find some success. Short of that, I believe this year will be a real struggle on offense.

[Bretsky]

That was a GREAT analysis Beveaux

Not to boot, with all these injuries combined with the failures of Adams it really Magnifies TT's complete failure to bring in anything that resembles a threat....or even an average starter, at TE.

[beveaux1]

I've got to give John Fox a tremendous amount of credit for taking an outmanned football team to Lambeau, sticking to his game plan, and beating us. His plan to play just 7 in the box and allow us to run and to rush just 4, give Rodgers openings to run if he wanted to take it, and play coverage, was probably all he could do with his limited personnel. Even with our running success, he knew we'd face 3rd and short, and have to convert time after time to complete a drive. He never came out of that defense, and he knew our tendency to run to open up the pass. He didn't bring an 8th man in the box, and he knew our receivers couldn't beat him. Even with that, we had to turn the ball over twice in order for them to get the win. Excellent job of coaching.

[Maxie the Taxi]

If all this analysis is correct (and I think it pretty much is), then no wonder our offense is stalled in PARK. Not only did TT fail the team (he should have brought in a seasoned replacement as soon as Jordy went down; plus, starting TE's were available in free agency) but Stubby and Clements should have dialed back their complicated system to something that could be implemented with the talent available.

Isn't the job of a good coach to get the most out of the players he has, rather than try to force square peg players into the round holes of the system?

[beveaux1]

That was a GREAT analysis Beveaux

Not to boot, with all these injuries combined with the failures of Adams it really Magnifies TT's complete failure to bring in anything that resembles a threat....or even an average starter, at TE.

In TT's defense, he could not really anticipate losing Nelson for the season, having Adams and Montgomery get injured, or having Lacy struggle the first half of the season. Not to mention the very weak TE group from last year's draft. I didn't anticipate R Rodgers looking slower than he did last year or Quarless basically missing the whole year.

[beveaux1]

If all this analysis is correct (and I think it pretty much is), then no wonder our offense is stalled in PARK. Not only did TT fail the team (he should have brought in a seasoned replacement as soon as Jordy went down; plus, starting TE's were available in free agency) but Stubby and Clements should have dialed back their complicated system to something that could be implemented with the talent available.

Isn't the job of a good coach to get the most out of the players he has, rather than try to force square peg players into the round holes of the system?

He did bring in Jones. I think that might have been the best he could do. Everybody anticipated (hoped for) Adams to make the jump. Nearly impossible to pick up a #1 that knows your system 2 games into the pre-season.

[beveaux1]

It's kind of a trickle down effect. Rodgers and the rest of the offense knows the system. Implementing a new system, even one that is less complicated takes time and practice, which they didn't have. Besides, I'm not sure that what we're seeing isn't a scaled back offense that fits the personnel available. There have been very few attempted back shoulder throws. Almost no multiple routes attempting to get someone deep. It's been a VERY basic offense. That might be why we're seeing so much hesitation on the part of Rodgers in the pocket. Been just kind of the perfect storm.

[Maxie the Taxi]

It's kind of a trickle down effect. Rodgers and the rest of the offense knows the system. Implementing a new system, even one that is less complicated takes time and practice, which they didn't have. Besides, I'm not sure that what we're seeing isn't a scaled back offense that fits the personnel available. There have been very few attempted back shoulder throws. Almost no multiple routes attempting to get someone deep. It's been a VERY basic offense. That might be why we're seeing so much hesitation on the part of Rodgers in the pocket. Been just kind of the perfect storm.

So what you're saying, really, is our offensive system was so fragile that the loss of one guy (not the QB) could make it all cave in on itself. Now we're screwed big time. Is that about it?

[beveaux1]

So what you're saying, really, is our offensive system was so fragile that the loss of one guy (not the QB) could make it all cave in on itself. Now we're screwed big time. Is that about it?

No. What I'm saying is the loss of Nelson, Montgomery, Adams (five games), Quarless, Lacy (for whatever reason for 8 games), even Abredaris, has hindered the offense and that it won't look like last years offense. This game was very winnable. We turned the ball over twice leading to 7 points and taking at least 3 away from us. We failed to score from the 8 in four tries at the end of the game. I'm a fan and I want them to be the same as last year, but they aren't. This team reminds me of the Schroeder years with Favre. We had so many injuries, we played a punt returner as a starting receiver and never got any YAC. I believe we still won 10 games, but every one was a struggle. Other parts of the team will have to pick up the offense for us to win and we probably won't have many blowout victories.

[beveaux1]

It's very easy to say "next man up" but when you look at your bench and the only wide receiver available is Janis, or you look at the tight ends and all you have is Perillo and Backman, or you look at the OL on the field and every one of them was limited in practice this week, I think there's a very good reason for the inefficiencies on that side of the ball.