MCGINN---NEW JSO ARTICLES..........THE BLAME FALLS ON

[run pMc]

I think TT will draft at least 1 OT and let Barclay go. Bulaga is always beat up and is good for about 13 games a year, and Bahkteria could use someone to push him. I think Tretter might get you through a game, but more than that is pushing it. Sitton and Lang are getting up there in age, and I think Walker is a OG. Rodgers got hit a lot this year, and some of that is on him, but that was a beat up line. I'd be fine with them looking at FA for ILB and TE, but I'm not sure who's out there.
There are record numbers of underclassmen declaring early, far more than can be expected to be drafted; so signing UDFA's isn't a horrible thing.

I think M3 made some mistakes with his staffing and that hurt...and he'll learn from it. He's not the swiftest at adjusting, but give him an offseason and he'll come up with things.
They need a separate coaches for QB ad WR, so we'll see what happens with Van Pelt. I'm curious to see what they do with Clements, and how the new guys fit into the staff.

I think the TE group needs an overhaul. Rodgers is a #2 TE, Quarless is done, Perillo is a try-hard JAG and Backman reminds me of Bostick.

In my rambling way, I'm saying that I agree somewhat with McGinn that TT and M3 made some mistakes, but nothing so egregious that they should be fired. They will (hopefully) learn from it and adjust. McGinn has become increasingly cranky and trollish over the last few years; you either get a good article because he took his meds that day, or it's an off-the-rails crazy overreaction piece. I think McGinn was overreacting and wrote a clickbait article here.

[Joemailman]

I think the biggest problem was that Rodgers wasn't on the same page at all times with McCarthy. I think his sensitivity to criticism created a wedge between them and Rodgers dug his heels in a bit. By listening to Rodgers pressers and watching his mannerisms I think he didn't want Janis out there because he wasn't confident he'd be where Rodgers expected him to be. For some reason it seemed like Adams was Rodgers' boy this year and his inability to recover from the high-ankle sprain doomed that marriage.

I agree on the Janis issue. A few weeks ago, MM in a PC said he wants to get Janis more playing time. Someone on here (Patler I think) questioned why Janis wasn't getting more playing time if MM felt that way. The answer I suspect is that MM saw no reason to put Janis out there if Rodgers won't throw to him. Even in the playoff game at Arizona, Janis wasn't out there much until Cobb got hurt and they had no choice. There's always been some tension at times between Rodgers and McCarthy, but I think it's become more than that. Not all out war, but a bit of a rift that needs to be fixed.

Just some idle speculation here...Rodgers announced he would be skipping the Pro Bowl on the same day the NFL announced that MM would be coaching one of the Pro Bowl teams. Maybe he just wants to get away from MM for a while?

[Pugger]

Mistakes were made this year for sure. That's stating the obvious. I think the biggest problem was that Rodgers wasn't on the same page at all times with McCarthy. I think his sensitivity to criticism created a wedge between them and Rodgers dug his heels in a bit. By listening to Rodgers pressers and watching his mannerisms I think he didn't want Janis out there because he wasn't confident he'd be where Rodgers expected him to be. For some reason it seemed like Adams was Rodgers' boy this year and his inability to recover from the high-ankle sprain doomed that marriage.

That, combined with the fact that every starting lineman fought health problems for the majority of the year, made Rodgers' MO (holding the ball longer than the average QB), produced nightmarish results on O.

Rodgers inability to make hay with his pre-snap adjustment game - and sensitivity to being told he needs to take more coaching and get the ball out quicker - even in the face of stacked press-man defenses - caused what we saw offensively IMO.

You can blame Rodgers' stubbornness/ego or you can blame McCarthy's for not maintaining an open coaching relationship, having too heavy of a hand when he inserted himself back into the offense perhaps. Take your pick but there's enough blame for both of them here.

Ted sat on his hands but I don't blame him a bit. I think they had enough talent to win it all. O-line and WR decimation along with what I think was a riff between Rodgers and Mac were the problems.
Plus no one seems to see it yet but they have serious cap challenges coming right up - particularly after next year. Ted's gonna need every penny he can get.

Could some of those issues between MM and AR be because Mike wasn't calling the plays for a while there?

[Joemailman]

Could some of those issues between MM and AR be because Mike wasn't calling the plays for a while there?

Not sure that things got a whole lot better once MM started calling the plays. Kuhn's snaps per game tripled once that happened which was probably an attempt to improve the protection of Rodgers. Not sure if Rodgers was on board with the idea, although he's praised Kuhn in the past.

[KYPack]

Not sure that things got a whole lot better once MM started calling the plays. Kuhn's snaps per game tripled once that happened which was probably an attempt to improve the protection of Rodgers. Not sure if Rodgers was on board with the idea, although he's praised Kuhn in the past.

Yeah, this and Pug's comment.

MM's offense starts with pass pro. Clements lost his way in that area and MM had to get involved. He made those moves somewhat proactively (I think) last off-season. Now where are we? Back to Mike with his face in the laminated sheet? Many times last season, it seemed that DickRod was the only guy gettin' any space on those little seams. We have to have guys getting open quick. MM has got to tool an offense that gets that done.

[vince]

Not sure that things got a whole lot better once MM started calling the plays. Kuhn's snaps per game tripled once that happened which was probably an attempt to improve the protection of Rodgers. Not sure if Rodgers was on board with the idea, although he's praised Kuhn in the past.

My sense is that Kuhn's presence was Rodgers' preference by that point. Rodgers wants to hold the ball and get it down field but that obviously wasn't happening. Kuhn helped Rodgers play his game a bit more, and was a reliable short yardage dump off when his guys continued to not get open. Without looking at the stats, I'd say they moved the ball better when Kuhn was in there - mostly because he helped Rodgers play the game he wants to play - at least a little bit better.

Kuhn was the middle ground between McCarthy wanting Rodgers to adjust - and Rodgers wanting McCarthy to adjust. Problem was it took until the playoffs for them to figure out they're stuck together so they damn well better figure out how to make it work.

[Bretsky]

This is the same view as Red and so many others make. You treat Rodgers as though he's some kind of pre-packaged MVP, HOF QB that the Packers bought in the store and threw out on the field, as though the coaches have nothing to do with his development, the schemes he runs, The players around him, the defense on the other side, or any of the million little things that have to be assembled to make a team work. Of course he has his own drive, development and competitiveness that is necessary to his success, but there's a good chance without the Packers and Stubby, he might be just an average QB out there, maybe even an Alex Smith.

On the other hand, acknowledging the guy's talent level - and the Packer's continued success, you have the draft order effect, where the Packers, unlike other teams that drop into oblivion for a year or two or ten or twenty, don't routinely get top 5 picks - so they can pick a dominant game-changer like a Von Miller. I dunno, maybe you'd like a few of those 2-14 seasons. If so, you should enjoy watching the Browns.

It sounds like you're helping me make a case to not only rely on draft and develop ))

Also, if you ever read my rants (I don't blame you at all if you completely ignore me), I'm not on the group that ignores how the coaches staff develops players and the ones calling for their heads

But I no longer love Ted Thompson and I would not complain if he retired tomorrow and Eliott Wolf was hired to replace him

[call_me_ishmael]

Being critical does not mean you hate, want someone fired, etc. Ted is a very good GM - even if he only landed Rodgers, he still managed to land Rodgers - but that doesn't mean he's perfect and should be above criticism.

I don't think McGinn was calling for his or McCarthy's heads. I think his criticism was fair. The buck stops with them, and every season the Packers come up short is a reflection on them.

Let's say Rodgers is a Packer until 2022, it will be a GD shame if we win two super bowls in 30 years. That would be significantly underachieving given the rare quarterback situation in my opinion. Does that mean I would say it's a total failure - of course not - but it is less than I would expect and certainly less than "elite" given the two elite QBs.

Since 1991 through today, the Packers have been to three Super Bowls. In that same time period, the Steelers have been to four, the Patriots have been to seven, the Seahawks have been to three, the Giants have been to four, the Broncos have been to four, The Bills have been to four, the Cowboys have been to three, Baltimore has been to two, and St. Louis has been to two.

Hardly "elite" when you consider having two HOF QBs back-to-back.

[Bretsky]

I don't think the offensive line is where the Packers would need to sign a FA to plug a hole. That can be done through the draft. They've been pretty successful at getting rookies ready to start if needed (Bulaga, Bakhtiari, Linsley). TE and ILB are the areas where looking at free agency might be the way to go.

THIS

although.........LAST YEAR was the year where there were plenty of TE's............

[Bretsky]

I'm a Badger homer and thus, love seeing Daniels do well. But bringing him in would have not caused a bunch of cheering that our TE problem was fixed. He doesn't stretch the field and that's what the board was all wanting this off-season was a TE that could have done that. He's likely about as fleet of foot as Rodgers is. TT would have been lambasted here with bringing in another slow TE.

agree......

[ThunderDan]

To think that TT and MM don't self evaluate after the season is done is silly. You don't think TT doesn't see what we see.

If Denver some how wins the Super Bowl do they get a pass. If I am Denver I am looking to revamp my offense, Super Bowl or not. I would let Manning walk and hope that Osweiller is the next QB. But he is a free agent so you are looking at a huge deal or tagging him and paying 20 million for an unproven starter. Denver better find a running game also next year. Otherwise they are go in to have to win a lot of 13-10 ball games.

[wist43]

The first criticism in boldface is a criticism of a change McCarthy made after the team failed to get to the SB.

The second criticism in boldface is a criticism of McCarthy's unwillingness to change.

I would agree that McCarthy seems a bit slow to pull the trigger on changes, and that can and has hurt this team from time to time. On the flip side, changing it up constantly is no recipe for success, either.

The point would be Fritz - he made changes to things that were working, and he didn't change what wasn't working; hence, this seasons dismal performance.

[pbmax]

If it was Rodgers preference to keep going deep then I give him credit for bravery. And he should also have a psych evaluation.

I thought that was Clements call to keep pushing the envelope and block with five. And Rodgers went along because that is the recipe to beat man coverage if you have time and he wanted to support his guy.

Going short though is severely restricted by that man press coverage. You don't see that coverage and say I am throwing on the second step unless its a screen. And they weren't blitzing him much normally, usually had a spy. If you are going to throw a receiver open on a timing route, that needs to be an accurate route. The killer here is that even when he had time (and that perked up later in the year as health returned) there was still no one open.

I don't think there was an answer this year except for Janis and Abbredaris. And while Rodgers may not have trusted Janis, the Head Coach didn't trust either enough to get additional routes OR 2 point conversion plays in their practice reps.

He needs to alter that no huddle to include base concepts that break man coverage right off the line. The Patriots have a lot of those routes and formations for Amidala and Edelman. The answer is probably Monty and Janis on a slant.

[vince]

Being critical does not mean you hate, want someone fired, etc. Ted is a very good GM - even if he only landed Rodgers, he still managed to land Rodgers - but that doesn't mean he's perfect and should be above criticism.

I don't think McGinn was calling for his or McCarthy's heads. I think his criticism was fair. The buck stops with them, and every season the Packers come up short is a reflection on them.

Let's say Rodgers is a Packer until 2022, it will be a GD shame if we win two super bowls in 30 years. That would be significantly underachieving given the rare quarterback situation in my opinion. Does that mean I would say it's a total failure - of course not - but it is less than I would expect and certainly less than "elite" given the two elite QBs.

Since 1991 through today, the Packers have been to three Super Bowls. In that same time period, the Steelers have been to four, the Patriots have been to seven, the Seahawks have been to three, the Giants have been to four, the Broncos have been to four, The Bills have been to four, the Cowboys have been to three, Baltimore has been to two, and St. Louis has been to two.

Hardly "elite" when you consider having two HOF QBs back-to-back.

15 (realistically 16 or 17) of those 25 years have nothing whatsoever to do with Thompson and McCarthy. Wolf, Sherman, Holmgren, and Favre deserve the overwhelming brunt of the "blame" under that argument.

[Pugger]

Good points. There was a point this year when they didn't know who might start at C with both Linsley and Tretter hurt for a period of time. When you are forced to put Josh Walker at OT, your depth is being tested! I don't fault Walker. The Packers put themselves in the spot of playing guys like him for depth, and so do other teams. Nobody's going to pay starter money for a backup and as you say, no starter or potential starter quality guy is going to go for being a backup, unless you get lucky and sign the guy for a 1 year prove it deal and he performs when called upon. I think you are right that they can fill need with first and second year guys. I know they like to have versatile guys, but it would also be nice to have a backup T who has the footwork and quickness to not be a liability when they are called upon, as we've seen with Barclay and Walker. I wondered about Vujnovich and whether they considered adding him to the roster from the practice squad when they were thin at OT, but they lived with playing two guys out of position (Tretter and Sitton). Walker says that he can play OT, and maybe he will yet as a backup, but early sample size was not encouraging, and he looks like a G to me. Anyway, injuries suck. Getting to the point of relying on depth that turns out to be meh definitely sucks, but the front office will just have to get busy finding more roster depth and creating that competition.

There just aren't enough decent starting tackles in this league, let alone backups. We could be the Gmen and still have Marshall Freaking Newhouse protecting Rodgers' backside. This year we got hit by multiple injuries to 2 key offensive positions and it really hampered this offense. I can't think of many teams who can absorb the kind of losses we had at WR and on the O line and not struggle to keep drives alive and score points.