MCGINN---NEW JSO ARTICLES..........THE BLAME FALLS ON

[woodbuck27]

McGinn has to be grading TT on in season moves only. Look how often he has hammered TT for not picking up Vernon Davis, regardless of the fact that Davis was a disappointment in Denver.

Vernon Davis may have thrived in Green Bay?

He may have been 'if acquired'...an upgrade from what we see at the TE position at present.

Maybe 'one day' we'll be able to see if that's an actuality!?

Do we simply close the door to such hope?



GO PACKERS ! GO PACK GO !!

[woodbuck27]

McGinn nails it in this answer me thinks:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/366380861.html

Q: Journeyman, New Orleans, LA - Bob, in Andre Agassi's memoir, he describes what happened when longtime coach Brad Gilbert left his coaching team. Gilbert said essentially "we've been together for almost a decade and we could keep going, but we've run through my bag of tricks. We've worked together long enough. You need a fresh voice". I feel like that can happen when any partnership runs long enough. This season will be Rodgers tenth with McCarthy and ninth with Clements, and I'm not calling for anyones head, but I think Rodgers badly needs a fresh voice to get him out of his head and back to consistency in his mechanics. Your thoughts?

A: Bob McGinn - JM: Rodgers has had four QB coaches: Bevell, Clements, McAdoo and Van Pelt. Joe Philbin, as OC, also was heavily involved with him. As for McCarthy, coaching QBs might be what he does best. The work McCarthy and Clements did in developing Rodgers should never be minimized. Can't anyone remember how awful Rodgers was in the summers of 2005 and 2006? That was fantastic coaching to get him where he is now. Hey, it's up to Rodgers. He has been taught the proper mechanics but people that are the best in the business at it. If he wants to keep throwing all arm off his back foot and bolting the pocket prematurely and sulking when adversity strikes or whatever else, coaches can't stop that. Rodgers just needs to play better next season.

Yes he certainly does (need to play a lot ....better) and as an assist for him to get there he needs to be properly coached. Aaron Rodgers needs to address his attitude and be realistic in regards to his expectations and perfectionism.

BE...... 'the Team' leader and yet......simply a part of the whole...working with the Packer Roster and sighting the BIG PICTURE and BEST how to ever manage a success there. As it is now and Aaron Rodgers. The Green Bay Packers will underachieve.

When I see Aaron Rodgers facial expressions and body language I see too much that must be changed....improved. He needs to change in terms of his total presence on his team. That will mean a coach that he can respect totally and trust. Some coach will face a real challenge and ARod.

I trust that man (QB Coach) present in the Packer staff or outside of it at present will be put in place.

As a Packer fan I feel that we need his every success. There's plenty we all might see that's wrong and ARod ......based in what we all might have seen last season.

GO PACK GO !

[Patler]

McGinn has to be grading TT on in season moves only. Look how often he has hammered TT for not picking up Vernon Davis, regardless of the fact that Davis was a disappointment in Denver.

If TT had gone out and gotten Davis, in his typical hindsight style McGinn would have criticized TT for wasting the investment on an obviously descending player, and wasting snaps on a player with no future when they could have given a younger player valuable experience.

[woodbuck27]

If TT had gone out and gotten Davis, in his typical hindsight style McGinn would have criticized TT for wasting the investment on an obviously descending player, and wasting snaps on a player with no future when they could have given a younger player valuable experience.

Your point on this 'of course' has merit.

Now can we agree that TT has to find that TE of which we are in great need?

[Patler]

Your point on this 'of course' has merit.

Now can we agree that TT has to find that TE of which we are in great need?

Definitely a position that needs improvement. I think R. Rodgers can provide more than he did this year, not in the nature of top flight production, but 10 yards when you need it. Backman is an unknown. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if the draft has what they need, or not. They may have to continue searching for a needle in the haystack of middle round draft picks.

I think it would help if they at least found a really good blocking TE. Right now they have neither a receiver who causes concern to opposing defenses, nor a solid blocker who can be relied on in protection or the running game. Basically they have guys that defenses can "ignore" in game planning.

[woodbuck27]

Definitely a position that needs improvement. I think R. Rodgers can provide more than he did this year, not in the nature of top flight production, but 10 yards when you need it. Backman is an unknown. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if the draft has what they need, or not. They may have to continue searching for a needle in the haystack of middle round draft picks.

I think it would help if they at least found a really good blocking TE. Right now they have neither a receiver who causes concern to opposing defenses, nor a solid blocker who can be relied on in protection or the running game. Basically they have guys that defenses can "ignore" in game planning.

Scout the Zulu Nation:

[Pugger]

If TT had gone out and gotten Davis, in his typical hindsight style McGinn would have criticized TT for wasting the investment on an obviously descending player, and wasting snaps on a player with no future when they could have given a younger player valuable experience.

Yup.

[Pugger]

Definitely a position that needs improvement. I think R. Rodgers can provide more than he did this year, not in the nature of top flight production, but 10 yards when you need it. Backman is an unknown. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if the draft has what they need, or not. They may have to continue searching for a needle in the haystack of middle round draft picks.

I think it would help if they at least found a really good blocking TE. Right now they have neither a receiver who causes concern to opposing defenses, nor a solid blocker who can be relied on in protection or the running game. Basically they have guys that defenses can "ignore" in game planning.

I wonder if looking at RRod's size they thought he'd be a better blocker than he presently is?

[pbmax]

I wonder if looking at RRod's size they thought he'd be a better blocker than he presently is?

Might be part of the reason his coach is no longer employed.

Finley defended Fontenot on line, which is a bit ironic since there were parts of Finley's game (routes and blocking) that did not improve materially.

[Pugger]

Finley might have liked Fontenot personally but that doesn't make him the right coach for the job.

[mraynrand]

Scout the Zulu Nation:

racist

[Patler]

Might be part of the reason his coach is no longer employed.

Finley defended Fontenot on line, which is a bit ironic since there were parts of Finley's game (routes and blocking) that did not improve materially.

Fontenot only had Finley for a year +, but if MM was seeing a similar lack of development of RR in two years. he had to look elsewhere for a TE coach.

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't think anyone would criticize TT for for spending a couple low round picks to acquire a guy and try to get better. Hearts in the right place. Failure is part of growing.

[Fritz]

I love how you homers are using the failures of others as a salve for the failures of our own.

Losers and excuse makers think in such terms.

Not everybody's a winner like Wist.

[Smidgeon]

I don't think anyone would criticize TT for for spending a couple low round picks to acquire a guy and try to get better. Hearts in the right place. Failure is part of growing.

Interesting comment. Thought I'd go look at TT's 6th and 7th round draft picks and see how well he did, excluding the most recent draft:

Still on Packers
Still in NFL (per PFR)

2005: 1/4 contributed/started
6 Mike Montgomery
6 Craig Bragg
7 Kurt Campbell
7 Will Whitticker

2006: 1/2 contributed/started
6 Johnny Jolly
7 Dave Tollefson

2007: 3/5 contributed/started
6 Korey hall
6 Desmond Bishop
6 Mason Crosby
7 DeShawn Wynn
7 Clark Harris

2008: 1/2 contributed/started
7 Matt Flynn
7 Brett Swain

2009: 1/3 contributed/started
6 Jarius Wynn
6 Brandon Underwood
7 Brad Jones

2010: 2/2 contributed/started
6 James Starks
7 CJ Wilson

2011: 1/5 contributed/started
6 Caleb Schlauderaff
6 DJ Smith
6 Ricky Elmore
7 Ryan Taylor
7 Lawrence Guy

2012: 0/2 contributed/started
7 Andrew Datko
7 BJ Coleman

2013: 2/4 contributed/started
6 Nate Palmer
7 Charles Johnson
7 Kevin Dorsey
7 Sam Barrington

2014: 2/2 show promise
6 Demetri Goodson
7 Jeff Janis


So by subjective count...

2005: 1/4 contributed/started
2006: 1/4 contributed/started
2007: 3/5 contributed/started
2008: 1/2 contributed/started
2009: 1/3 contributed/started
2010: 2/2 contributed/started
2011: 1/5 contributed/started
2012: 0/2 contributed/started
2013: 2/4 contributed/started
2014: 2/2 show promise

...for a grand total hit rate of 14/31 = 45%.

The best players were Brad Jones, Desmond Bishop, Johnny Jolly, Mason Crosby, and Sam Barrington (I suddenly find it utterly fascinating that Green Bay's best starting ILBs have been in the sixth/seventh round...

The other interesting note is that TT has only completely missed on three players (i.e. the player never actually made a final roster):
Craig Bragg and Kurt Campbell in 2005 (rounds 6 and 7)
Cory Rodgers in 2006 (round 4)
Everyone else has made a final roster. Not a bad record.

EDIT: Corrected some math