INTERESTING===PATS TRIED REGAINING THE DRAFT PICK

[Teamcheez1]

I don't know how anyone can feel any outrage or compassion for the Patriots when it comes to anything. Their philosophy is "it's not cheating if you don't get caught."

[mraynrand]

No, that is not the concept for escalating punishment in repeat offenders. It's not intended to "make up" for a too light punishment of an earlier offense, nor is that what I was implying. It is intended to find a punishment sufficient to deter the offender from offending again.

monty python reference

[woodbuck27]

Everybody is quick to bash the Pats because they are jealous. Many teams hate GB and mock Rodgers mannerisms and lack of leadership on the field...IMO.......because they are jealous of our success.

I listened to a Pats fan call in; for the most part Patriots fans feel everybody is out to get them because they have hands down the best coach in the NFL and a Hall of Fame QB to go along with him ...both of which....will do nearly everything to win. They feel the rest of the NFL is jealous of their dominance.

They are at least partly correct.

Hardly anybody brings up the NFL conveniently hiding details that might at least have a bit of relevance. They do what they want. And they don't like NE or Hoody Genius.

THe NFL isn't even approaching a decent PR move as this case continues. The NFL should demonstrate integrity.

I'm impressed with the way Robert Kraft has handled this entire affair. I'm sure Pat's fans are as well.

[Patler]

I don't know. He treated them very similar to the last time with a big fine and a lost draft pick (he did add a future fourth rounder).

The big difference this time was Brady's involvement.

I actually would have expected him to mention escalating punishment if he wanted to deter others. Maybe the fourth round pick was it.

My comment was specifically in reply to Bretsky's remark, which I quoted, questioning if he punished them more severely because he screwed up the first time. It presupposed that the second punishment was more severe. I'm not arguing that it was. I'm merely stating that if it was, the reason was not that he screwed up the first time but that the Patriots were repeat offenders.

There would have been absolutely no need for him to make a public statement about any enhanced punishment due to the Patriots being repeat offenders. The only "others" who need to be deterred are the other owners, GM's, head coaches, etc. of the 31 other teams, all with whom he meets regularly and communicates directly whenever he so chooses. For the most part, the NFL wants to conceal their dirty laundry behind closed doors not emphasize it in public, nor rehash previous transgressions by other teams. The commish would have handled that by direct private correspondence, not a public proclamation.

[Patler]

THe NFL isn't even approaching a decent PR move as this case continues. The NFL should demonstrate integrity.

I'm impressed with the way Robert Kraft has handled this entire affair. I'm sure Pat's fans are as well.

Robert Kraft plays the PR game well, but it doesn't make his organization any less the rule-benders that they are.
They have flaunted the rules and have been caught. They deserve punishment.

[Fritz]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...-roger-goodell

I understand the Patriots have two second-round picks. One way to get a first rounder back would be to trade those two picks, plus maybe a fourth, to Green Bay for the #27 overall.

[esoxx]

I'm still in favor of a dispersal draft.

[mraynrand]

I understand the Patriots have two second-round picks. One way to get a first rounder back would be to trade those two picks, plus maybe a fourth, to Green Bay for the #27 overall.

[Patler]

I understand the Patriots have two second-round picks. One way to get a first rounder back would be to trade those two picks, plus maybe a fourth, to Green Bay for the #27 overall.

I was intrigued by that thought, until I discovered their second round picks are #60 and #61.

[Patler]

I'm not sure I would trade #27 for the Patriots entire draft. Their third round pick is #91, and they have no picks in the 4th and 5th rounds. Their draft looks like this:

First round: None

Second round: 60th overall selection
Second round: 61st overall selection (from Arizona Cardinals)

Third round: 91st overall selection
Third round: 96th overall selection (compensatory)

Fourth round: None

Fifth round: None

Sixth round: 196th overall selection (from Houston Texans)
Sixth round: 204th overall selection (reacquired from Chicago Bears)
Sixth round: 208th overall selection (compensatory)
Sixth round: 214th overall selection (compensatory)
Sixth round: 221st overall selection (compensatory)

Seventh round: 243rd overall selection (from Houston)
Seventh round: 250th overall selection

[pbmax]

My comment was specifically in reply to Bretsky's remark, which I quoted, questioning if he punished them more severely because he screwed up the first time. It presupposed that the second punishment was more severe. I'm not arguing that it was. I'm merely stating that if it was, the reason was not that he screwed up the first time but that the Patriots were repeat offenders.

There would have been absolutely no need for him to make a public statement about any enhanced punishment due to the Patriots being repeat offenders. The only "others" who need to be deterred are the other owners, GM's, head coaches, etc. of the 31 other teams, all with whom he meets regularly and communicates directly whenever he so chooses. For the most part, the NFL wants to conceal their dirty laundry behind closed doors not emphasize it in public, nor rehash previous transgressions by other teams. The commish would have handled that by direct private correspondence, not a public proclamation.

When Goodell went ballistic over tampering and the Chiefs, they not only released a statement that talked about the deterrent effect they hoped for, they sent Troy Vincent out to deliver the news via interviews.

So the idea that Goodell doesn't need to announce it as deterrence for recidivism is answering the wrong question. He would announce it, talk about it publicly and tell you what purpose it was meant to serve several times over.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25510804/nfl-hammers-chiefs-for-tampering-with-huge-fine-loss-of-two-draft-picks

As for the (possible) escalation for deterrence, I should not have responded directly to you since you were not making that point directly.

But I stand by the point generally. A team penalty that was very much in line with the sideline taping penalty satisfied no one. I think he got tremendous blowback inside and outside the League office. Officials wanted the Patriots hit hard for this one. Not just as deterrence with a view to the future, but as payback for previous instances where folks felt the Patriots got a break from the New York offices.

That meant Brady was doomed and Kraft wasn't going to get any further accommodation.

[Patler]

When Goodell went ballistic over tampering and the Chiefs, they not only released a statement that talked about the deterrent effect they hoped for, they sent Troy Vincent out to deliver the news via interviews.

So the idea that Goodell doesn't need to announce it as deterrence for recidivism is answering the wrong question. He would announce it, talk about it publicly and tell you what purpose it was meant to serve several times over.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25510804/nfl-hammers-chiefs-for-tampering-with-huge-fine-loss-of-two-draft-picks

Wasn't the Chiefs situation pretty much the exact opposite of the Patriots? Vincent said the punishment recognized their clean history and cooperation in the investigation. To explain an enhanced penalty for a repeat offender like NE, the league would have had to rehash things they hope the public has forgotten or will soon forget.

All Vincent explained was the general concept behind any punishment.

[Fritz]

I'm not sure I would trade #27 for the Patriots entire draft. Their third round pick is #91, and they have no picks in the 4th and 5th rounds. Their draft looks like this:

First round: None

Second round: 60th overall selection
Second round: 61st overall selection (from Arizona Cardinals)

Third round: 91st overall selection
Third round: 96th overall selection (compensatory)

Fourth round: None

Fifth round: None

Sixth round: 196th overall selection (from Houston Texans)
Sixth round: 204th overall selection (reacquired from Chicago Bears)
Sixth round: 208th overall selection (compensatory)
Sixth round: 214th overall selection (compensatory)
Sixth round: 221st overall selection (compensatory)

Seventh round: 243rd overall selection (from Houston)
Seventh round: 250th overall selection

Depending on Thompson's board, I could see him trading away the #27 overall for both seconds and the #91 in the third. But the Pats would be crazy - one first, one third, and a bunch of sixths.

[Patler]

Depending on Thompson's board, I could see him trading away the #27 overall for both seconds and the #91 in the third. But the Pats would be crazy - one first, one third, and a bunch of sixths.

I could see him trading down into the first 10 picks or so of the 2nd round, but not all the way down to the bottom of the second round. Especially not when his own second isn't until #57

[pbmax]

Wasn't the Chiefs situation pretty much the exact opposite of the Patriots? Vincent said the punishment recognized their clean history and cooperation in the investigation. To explain an enhanced penalty for a repeat offender like NE, the league would have had to rehash things they hope the public has forgotten or will soon forget.

All Vincent explained was the general concept behind any punishment.

He explicitly said the sanctions were designed to act as a deterrent as well. But yes, he did mention the lack of a history with the Chiefs and tampering.