Do we have a Rodgers problem?

[George Cumby]

See Janis, Jeff.

But you are right, Rodgers is not prone to bad-mouthing teammates. George Cumby couldn't resist a good pun.

you know me too well, Harlan. And this frightens me.

[hoosier]

Disagree about the line. Defenses are pressing the line of scrimmage and with Rodgers holding the ball that puts a lot of pressure on the line. They got beat a few times for sure but they consistently see guys threatening (and hitting) gaps everywhere both rushing and filling running lanes. I think they've held up OK (not great) given who they've faced thus far. I'm a broker record here, but quick hitters and faster tempo would help the line out tremendously too.

Quick hitters are tough against press man when defense doesn't have to worry about (accurate) deep balls.

[pbmax]

Quick hitters are tough against press man when defense doesn't have to worry about (accurate) deep balls.

That is something that Doug Farrar piece talks about. How to use formations and motion to free your people up from press man. Basically, everything you used to see Greg Jennings do when he moved inside for 3 WR - motion, 2 stacked receivers, bunches of three.

I have seen some more of two receiver stacks this year, so I am hopeful. No motion.

https://t.co/ZoOM3FLDq2

[gbgary]

i know the "big play" is a priority for MM but it's gotten to the point where AR is looking to go deep all the time instead of taking a higher percentage throw. i think if they'd concentrate on the shorter stuff the big play will happen more.

[Carolina_Packer]

Disagree about the line. Defenses are pressing the line of scrimmage and with Rodgers holding the ball that puts a lot of pressure on the line. They got beat a few times for sure but they consistently see guys threatening (and hitting) gaps everywhere both rushing and filling running lanes. I think they've held up OK (not great) given who they've faced thus far. I'm a broker record here, but quick hitters and faster tempo would help the line out tremendously too.

Good post, Vince. I agree with Aaron holding the ball too long. Has anyone here re-watched the game or have the wide-view of the replay? I'd be curious to know if it's Aaron not trusting to get the ball out, the receivers routes taking too long to develop, his decision making with pressure, or some/all of the above. I wish they could establish respect for the run game, so they could another defender committed to the box, but with the man to man clamp down and the lack of the Packers running against that effectively, it puts a lot of pressure on the success of the passing game. Is it too hard to be a good running and passing team? It's frustrating. Back in 2011, we would have killed to have an Eddie Lacy running the ball. The Packers were other worldly in passing, despite a pretty mediocre running attack. I think they had receivers who were not only on the same wavelength as Rodgers, but also had superior elusiveness vs. DB's.

[Pugger]

Good post, Vince. I agree with Aaron holding the ball too long. Has anyone here re-watched the game or have the wide-view of the replay? I'd be curious to know if it's Aaron not trusting to get the ball out, the receivers routes taking too long to develop, his decision making with pressure, or some/all of the above. I wish they could establish respect for the run game, so they could another defender committed to the box, but with the man to man clamp down and the lack of the Packers running against that effectively, it puts a lot of pressure on the success of the passing game. Is it too hard to be a good running and passing team? It's frustrating. Back in 2011, we would have killed to have an Eddie Lacy running the ball. The Packers were other worldly in passing, despite a pretty mediocre running attack. I think they had receivers who were not only on the same wavelength as Rodgers, but also had superior elusiveness vs. DB's.

I haven't rewatched the game (I don't know if I could stomach it) but I'd wager it is all of the above in your post.

[pbmax]

The running game was not spectacular versus the Vikings, but it was better than the Vikings'.

You can live with 3 ypc if your passing game is clicking, but you are not going to get a team out of coverage at that rate. It keeps the dogs at bay and makes people pay attention to play action.

[hoosier]

That is something that Doug Farrar piece talks about. How to use formations and motion to free your people up from press man. Basically, everything you used to see Greg Jennings do when he moved inside for 3 WR - motion, 2 stacked receivers, bunches of three.

I have seen some more of two receiver stacks this year, so I am hopeful. No motion.

https://t.co/ZoOM3FLDq2

I wonder why McCarthy got away from that. I know it's complicated, but I cannot believe that he's unaware of the problem or that he doesn't have access to the kind of solution Farrar is proposing. Self scouting used to be such a point of emphasis with McCarthy. Maybe it still is, but it is really surprising to see this offense stuck in the mud for such a long time. If a good part of the problem lies with Rodgers (mechanical, lack of confidence in receivers, whatever) it's still a bit of a shock to see that McCarthy is apparently unable to fix it.

[MadScientist]

More from the writers on how Rodgers is not Rodgers anymore:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports...form/90720516/

He's doing a better job making commercials than making plays.

[pbmax]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports...ings/90701150/

McGinn talks about how Rodgers' mechanics have deteriorated. I've felt for a while that is the reason for his inaccuracy. Does MM see it as a problem? Is Rodgers still coachable? Is that calf injury a permanent problem?

I think most of Rodgers issues with mechanics have to do with movement in the pocket. He is dancing around worried about pressure (often for good reason) when he decides to throw.

[Rutnstrut]

I think most of Rodgers issues with mechanics have to do with movement in the pocket. He is dancing around worried about pressure (often for good reason) when he decides to throw.

If he's scared of getting hit, he should quit.

[pbmax]

If he's scared of getting hit, he should quit.

Why? Brett played that way for the last 5/6 years of his career (the Vikings year being a notable exception) and he was fine.

[Rutnstrut]

Why? Brett played that way for the last 5/6 years of his career (the Vikings year being a notable exception) and he was fine.

I never remember Favre being as yippy as Rodgers has been for the last 14 games or so.

[denverYooper]

I never remember Favre being as yippy as Rodgers has been for the last 14 games or so.

I do.

Favre's willingness to get rid of the ball "trying to make a play" is not much different. He didn't want to get hit either.

[vince]

That is something that Doug Farrar piece talks about. How to use formations and motion to free your people up from press man. Basically, everything you used to see Greg Jennings do when he moved inside for 3 WR - motion, 2 stacked receivers, bunches of three.

I have seen some more of two receiver stacks this year, so I am hopeful. No motion.

https://t.co/ZoOM3FLDq2

Here's a good new article published today that echoes some of what Farrar mentions and adds a couple things that also ring true for me.
Struggling Packer Offense Flawed by Design

Fundamentally, they run a “second-phase isolation system.” This offense is intended to take advantage of Rodgers’ unique ability to keep plays alive and create big-play opportunities well after most systems demand the ball be released.

The Packers run an off-script, non-rhythmic offense. They utilize isolation routes and spread formations. They anticipate their players winning 1-on-1 matchups or Rodgers putting the ball where defenders can’t reach it. His trademark back-shoulder connection to Jordy Nelson is just one example.

The issues come when receivers cannot separate from man coverage. Then, each receiver is running an independent route and no one is getting open.

McCarthy is among the best sequencers in the business. He knows when to call the right plays at the right time, and is always multiple steps ahead of the defense. He will call specific plays from certain formations in order to set up opportunities later in the game.

Yet, watch the last 14 Packers games and you see none of that.

In fact, you see little McCarthy at all. Drawing up an offensive structure that asks its quarterback to play without structure and create magic on every play is not good enough, and it’s not what McCarthy has done throughout his career.

Time to pick up the pace

Rodgers can create magic unlike anyone else in the league. Yet even Michael Jordan knew when it was time to make a layup.

Rodgers must be better at getting the ball out quickly and making simple plays. Doing so would allow the Packers to increase the pace of their offense. It’s most effective when it jumps into no-huddle mode, keeping defenses on their heels and unable to substitute. In 2015, the Packers finished 21st in seconds-per-play. That number that just isn’t good enough for a team that should be routinely using tempo to keep the defense off-balance.

This segues into McCarthy's PC from yesterday. I think Big Mike may be about to take some control back from Rodgers.

Here's what he had to say.

The efficiency, the flow and our execution needs to improve. Playing with a quicker tempo. Not reacting to the disguise of the defense. That’s what today’s meeting was for, to make sure the film gets corrected.

We have a clear understanding of what we need to do and a clear vision of what we’re going to do.

The “time clock” [Rodgers holding the ball too long] is something that we need to improve on in our passing game. That will be a focus of ours this week.

Looking at how we want to play is a focus. We need to do a better job moving forward.

We went to some more basic things in the second half, but the turnovers in the second half were really the downfall there.

So you get a chance to look at the film, dissect it, communicate about it and lay it all out. I feel like we’ve had a good day doing that.

Edgar Bennett added,

We had a great session today making corrections and putting ourselves in position to apply those corrections moving forward.

In the no-huddle, we have to clean up a few things and make sure we’re operating at a high level as far as our tempo.

We feel like we have a plan in place so that we can be more efficient.

That all sounds reassuring to me, at least in terms of them seeing the issues and addressing them with Rodgers in particular. I'm looking forward to seeing if/how it translates to the field.