8-10 overall; 4-5 at home, 4-5 on the road

[Rutnstrut]

It's really quite simple. They are not a good team, hell they aren't even mediocre.

[call_me_ishmael]

The Packers will get to the divisional round or NFCC. All bets are off as to who wins there. They're super banged up right now.

It's tough to win a game when you're playing against a top tier QB and down so many corners and your top pass rusher. Does Denver beat Indy if Von Miller, Aqib Talib, Chris Harris and Webster are out? It's unlikely in my opinion. Hopefully Sammy Shields can come back for playoff time and Randall finally gets healthy.

They'll be fine.

[woodbuck27]

They're not a top team now, but the distance to get there is only as far as the few feet that separate M3's head from his sphincter.

You Americans measure distance funny.

[denverYooper]

The Packers will get to the divisional round or NFCC. All bets are off as to who wins there. They're super banged up right now. It's tough to win a game when you're playing against a top tier QB and down so many corners and your top pass rusher.

CM3 is not the D's top pass rusher at this point but he tilts the equation for the defense because he gives them a 3rd pressure point and legit speed rush. Besides Perry and Daniels, he's at least someone an offense has to account for and by far their best speed rusher. I doubt Capers would call as many DB blitzes if CM3 is in.

[woodbuck27]

Well here is the press and what the Packers really are and being a Super Bowl Contender. Most of us have observed Aaron Rodgers position and this matter and the condition of the Spirit and his team:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/07/ugly-home-losses-lack-of-juice-put-mike-mccarthy-firmly-on-the-hot-seat/

I watched this game and observed the rousing Spirit of the Packer fans. We as Packer fans deserve more than we saw yesterday. There is no way that the talent of Aaron Rodgers can win the day without a rushing attack. It's up to the Packers GM to ensure the running back position is better secured as to not force a one dimensional passing attack. How often do we see pass completions in the middle of the field within 20 yards of the LOS? Where are the crossing routes and the quick pass?

Yes the team is banged up but it's still the job of the GM and Coaching staff to put the best roster out there. The day of the excuses and same ole same ole are way over now. If you need a RB secure one. I believe that Ted Thompson is trying to do that today.

It's time for a big change and a more complete hands on approach of managing the team with one of the premiere QB's in the NFL. If TT and MM and Company cannot see that through with at least the effort expected a change must be expected.

Someone is thinking:

" all I want for Christmas is John Gruden as the Packers next head coach. "

[Sparkey]

The offense is pathetic. Their is no imagination in play calling, no imagination in route running.

It is exactly what is was four years ago. It seems offenses are continually adjusting except ours.

So what that tells me is McCarthy is stubborn and believes that "his offense" is not the problem. However, trying to fit square pegs into round holes is a receipe for insanity.

I think MM has far too many yes men working for him. He needs some people to tell him that his schemes don't work. Complacency is an innovation killer.

My final thought: Belicheck would alter the routes and scheme to fit the personnel. I don't see that from McCarthy.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Well here is the press and what the Packers really are and being a Super Bowl Contender. Most of us have observed Aaron Rodgers position and this matter and the condition of the Spirit and his team:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/07/ugly-home-losses-lack-of-juice-put-mike-mccarthy-firmly-on-the-hot-seat/

I watched this game and observed the rousing Spirit of the Packer fans. We as Packer fans deserve more than we saw yesterday. There is no way that the talent of Aaron Rodgers can win the day without a rushing attack. It's up to the Packers GM to ensure the running back position is better secured as to not force a one dimensional passing attack. How often do we see pass completions in the middle of the field within 20 yards of the LOS? Where are the crossing routes and the quick pass?

Yes the team is banged up but it's still the job of the GM and Coaching staff to put the best roster out there. The day of the excuses and same ole same ole are way over now. If you need a RB secure one. I believe that Ted Thompson is trying to do that today.

It's time for a big change and a more complete hands on approach of managing the team with one of the premiere QB's in the NFL. If TT and MM and Company cannot see that through with at least the effort expected a change must be expected.

Someone is thinking:

" all I want for Christmas is John Gruden as the Packers next head coach. "

S'up Woody. Welcome back.

Gotta disagree with ya here. RB? We don't need no stinkin' RB. Run and shoot all day, baby. Run and shoot. Even with Lacy running the rock, the run game appears to be a rhythm killer.

[Patler]

Context matters, at least a little bit. Let's look at the losses.

2015:
@Denver (12-4, SB Champ)
@Carolina (15-1 SB runner-up)
Detroit (7-9)
Chicago (6-10)
@Arizona (13-3, NFC runner-up)
Minnesota (11-5, NFCN champ)

2016:
@Minnesota (5-3, considered the best D at the time)
Dallas (7-1, best current record in NFC)
@Atlanta (6-3, #1 offense in the league)
Indianapolis (4-5)

7 of those 10 losses have come against top teams. The only loss that was against a truly bad team was vs. Chicago last year. Detroit was trending up when they beat the Packers and the Colts, despite struggling at the beginning of the year, have typically been a playoff team with Luck under center.

They clearly need to win some of those games to re-gain their position near the upper echelon of the league but we have to acknowledge that their record in that span has come against quality opposition.

The 10 losses have come against 9 different teams, roughly 30% of the other 31 teams. There are other very good teams they haven't played during this span, the seven you mentioned are not the only ones, nor even the 7 best. Besides, it's not difficult to find something positive to say about a lot of teams.

As a lot of coaches tell us, you are what your record is. This has been a sub-500 team for more than a season now. MAYBE, they are a middle of the pack team, but with three losses coming at home in games they were favored by more than a TD, I wonder.

[RashanGary]

Hang in there guys. Some tough breaks early. Lacy will be back. Nelson is getting himself back in shape. Randall was only healthy one game this year and was very good that one game. He'll be back. Matthews will be back. Aaron is starting to trust Adams and Cobb and Nelson and Monty out of the backfield....... OL is playing fantastic and should for years to come.

Lots of young guys playing and getting better.

Even if it doesn't happen for us this year, we've got a 4 year window. One more SB and Rodgers career is set as far as I'm concerned. I like this team. I like that AR and MM adjusted. I like our chances as we get healthy this year and going forward. I'm not jumping off any cliffs right now.

[woodbuck27]

Hang in there guys. Some tough breaks early. Lacy will be back. Nelson is getting himself back in shape. Randall was only healthy one game this year and was very good that one game. He'll be back. Matthews will be back. Aaron is starting to trust Adams and Cobb and Nelson and Monty out of the backfield....... OL is playing fantastic and should for years to come.

Lots of young guys playing and getting better.

Even if it doesn't happen for us this year, we've got a 4 year window. One more SB and Rodgers career is set as far as I'm concerned. I like this team. I like that AR and MM adjusted. I like our chances as we get healthy this year and going forward. I'm not jumping off any cliffs right now.

I like your optimism. I interpret it as:

Just wait and maybe wait a wee bit longer and well maybe a whole lot longer, yet be patient.

[Patler]

It's unknowable and a mostly indefensible argument, because you are expected to win no matter the circumstances, but it would be interesting to see what level this team could perform at being full strength.

Key guys who have been out or affected by injury includes Clay, Sam Shields, Jared Cook, Lacy, Starks (I'll count him since we only had two RB's, which is not the players' fault), Cobb (nagging injuries), Jordy (coming back from knee injury, still getting up to speed hopefully), as well as Randall and Rollins. I'd like to think these last two games would have gone differently had we been at full strength. I'd like to think that if Cook had just played his 9th game, he would have assimilated himself into the offense, and provided a threat that we currently do not have consistently in the middle of the field.

That would make us 6-2 and what would the conversation be then? Would Cook be the boat that raises all the other boats, ala Jordy in 2014? Who knows. Would the dialog about the offense be the same? Who knows.

Not having Clay to help with the pass rush and enough DB's (Shields, Randall and Rollins) to cover consistently has weakened the defense. No doubt about it. Would they have been better off keeping Hayward? Probably. They may have better withstood the injury bug by doing so. The kids we have are doing the best they can but losing top three CB's for any length of time is a nightmare scenario.

There are reasons and there are excuses. None of the latter can be made, but some of the former can.

In order for injuries to be a reason, their injuries have to be more significant than other teams'. In spite of losing Nelson for the whole season, the Packers didn't lose a lot of starter games to injuries last year compared to other teams around the league. JSO had an article after the season that showed they were actually quite healthy when looking at preferred starters actually starting the games. You can argue that many played while dinged up, but what team doesn't have that?

Yesterday was a good example of what is going wrong with this team. Both teams had weaknesses and strengths, yet where the packers had an apparent strength (pass rush) matched against a Colts weakness (pass protection), the Packer made little impact. On the other hand, Colts strengths against Packer weaknesses did make impacts.

[woodbuck27]

In order for injuries to be a reason, their injuries have to be more significant than other teams'. In spite of losing Nelson for the whole season, the Packers didn't lose a lot of starter games to injuries last year compared to other teams around the league. JSO had an article after the season that showed they were actually quite healthy when looking at preferred starters actually starting the games. You can argue that many played while dinged up, but what team doesn't have that?

Yesterday was a good example of what is going wrong with this team. Both teams had weaknesses and strengths, yet were the packers had an apparent strength (pass rush) matched against a Colts weakness (pass protection), the Packer made little impact. On the other hand, Colts strengths against Packer weaknesses did make impacts.

It's really about the will to win.

That was a very tough loss for the Packers in Atlanta. How much did that one point loss take away from the teams ultimate preparation for the home game Vs Indy?

The atmosphere to contribute to a team win was terrific at Lambeau. All that was wasted on the Packer team as a whole.

Where was the TEAM SPIRIT !?

[beveaux1]

It's unknowable and a mostly indefensible argument, because you are expected to win no matter the circumstances, but it would be interesting to see what level this team could perform at being full strength.

Key guys who have been out or affected by injury includes Clay, Sam Shields, Jared Cook, Lacy, Starks (I'll count him since we only had two RB's, which is not the players' fault), Cobb (nagging injuries), Jordy (coming back from knee injury, still getting up to speed hopefully), as well as Randall and Rollins. I'd like to think these last two games would have gone differently had we been at full strength. I'd like to think that if Cook had just played his 9th game, he would have assimilated himself into the offense, and provided a threat that we currently do not have consistently in the middle of the field.

That would make us 6-2 and what would the conversation be then? Would Cook be the boat that raises all the other boats, ala Jordy in 2014? Who knows. Would the dialog about the offense be the same? Who knows.

Not having Clay to help with the pass rush and enough DB's (Shields, Randall and Rollins) to cover consistently has weakened the defense. No doubt about it. Would they have been better off keeping Hayward? Probably. They may have better withstood the injury bug by doing so. The kids we have are doing the best they can but losing top three CB's for any length of time is a nightmare scenario.

There are reasons and there are excuses. None of the latter can be made, but some of the former can.

I agree with this. I think that perhaps the biggest loss for the Packers has been Shields. He's a legitimate #1 corner with the speed to close and the leaping ability to cover taller receivers. Is he a shut-down corner? That's debatable, but having him allowed us to play man and he rarely needed safety help. With him gone, probably forever, we have been forced to use Gunter, who may have been our dime CB, as our #1. Although he has length, he has no closing speed, and needs safety help. Our other corner has been either Goodson or Rollins in the last 5 games. Rollins is still learning the position and has potential, but would have been the nickel CB. Goodson was probably going to be cut when he came off suspension if injuries had not hit. Neither player is close to being NFL starter quality.

The CB position and the lack of effective pass rush without Mathews has limited our defensive calls, caused us to play zone a good portion of the time- something our defense is not good at nor comfortable with, and kept us from getting off the field on third down.

I just don't see how this changes over the next 8 weeks. Gunter is too limited physically. It would take a near-miracle for Goodson to progress to starting CB caliber. Rollins is still gimpy and still learning the position. Randall may not be back for 3 or 4 weeks and he wasn't a world beater when he was there. Matthews will be in and out all season with his hammy.

I don't care how well you coach, the most important part of the team is the talent of the players. We lack talent at arguably the 2nd most important position on the defense. Capers options are badly limited without that talent. We'll struggle to make the playoffs this year. In fact, a .500 record or below is a possibility.

[Patler]

It's really about the will to win.

That was a very tough loss for the Packers in Atlanta. How much did that one point loss take away from the teams ultimate preparation for the home game Vs Indy?

The atmosphere to contribute to a team win was terrific at Lambeau. All that was wasted on the Packer team as a whole.

Where was the TEAM SPIRIT !?

Hi Woody. Good to see you are back.

Where was the team spirit? The same place it has been in a number of embarrassing home losses the last two seasons. I always counted on MM having his team ready to play, but that hasn't been the case the last two years. Far too many time they have not been ready.

I wonder if some of the "old guard" like AR, CM, JN and others have lost confidence in McCarthy. I wonder if it stems from the Seattle playoff game when McCarthy seemed to lose touch with what was happening in the game, a fact he even admitted in the off season when he promoted Clements to play caller. Heck, he even admiitted to not knowing Matthews was on the sidelines for the last drive by Seattle in regulation time. Sitton and Rodger both criticized playing not to lose; how many others are thinking the same?

Does this team still trust MM to pull the right strings to give them a chance to win?

[Patler]

I agree with this. I think that perhaps the biggest loss for the Packers has been Shields. He's a legitimate #1 corner with the speed to close and the leaping ability to cover taller receivers. Is he a shut-down corner? That's debatable, but having him allowed us to play man and he rarely needed safety help. With him gone, probably forever, we have been forced to use Gunter, who may have been our dime CB, as our #1. Although he has length, he has no closing speed, and needs safety help. Our other corner has been either Goodson or Rollins in the last 5 games. Rollins is still learning the position and has potential, but would have been the nickel CB. Goodson was probably going to be cut when he came off suspension if injuries had not hit. Neither player is close to being NFL starter quality.

The CB position and the lack of effective pass rush without Mathews has limited our defensive calls, caused us to play zone a good portion of the time- something our defense is not good at nor comfortable with, and kept us from getting off the field on third down.

I just don't see how this changes over the next 8 weeks. Gunter is too limited physically. It would take a near-miracle for Goodson to progress to starting CB caliber. Rollins is still gimpy and still learning the position. Randall may not be back for 3 or 4 weeks and he wasn't a world beater when he was there. Matthews will be in and out all season with his hammy.

I don't care how well you coach, the most important part of the team is the talent of the players. We lack talent at arguably the 2nd most important position on the defense. Capers options are badly limited without that talent. We'll struggle to make the playoffs this year. In fact, a .500 record or below is a possibility.

That's all true, but the biggest turnaround on this team the last two years has been the downward spiral of the offense.