Geronimo Allison Charged With Misdemeanor Possession

[Patler]

I think that this is one small area of undeniable improvement in the pros on this front. Problem with recalling older vets (some of the guys on Patler's list) is that they are more spaced out time-wise than the memory of them. But since McNair, progress has been made much more rapidly. More progress here than with coaches, though that is better too.

Did you mean Partials list of players, or my identification of teams? Either way, what is the difference if there is spacing over time? The facts are that they commetted to black QBs when they had them and they earned it.

Minnesota has had a continuous succession of black QBs often as their starter, sometimes as their backup ever since Warren Moon became their starter in 1994, 95 & 96. He was followed immediately by Cunningham who alternated with Brad Johnson and Jeff George, but started half their games over the next three years. That lead directly to Daunte Culpepper's run of 6 years. The on-again, off-again career of Tavarious Jackson as a starter followed immediately after Culpepper. He was followed by McNabb and then Bridgewater. It has been a more or less continuous string for 22 years. Black QBs started about 200 games for them, and most often they were the preferred starter who would have started more but injuries got in the way, like this year.

Detroit had Rodney Peete as their primary starter for five years from 1989 through 1993, then Charlie Batch for 4 years from 1998 through 2001, making it 9 years of black starting QBs in 13 total. They also invested a high first round pick in Andre Ware even while Peete was their starter. Clearly they did not shy away from black QBs. In 2008 and 2009 Culpepper started 10 games for them as a backup.

Tampa Bay had a long streak of white starters after Doug Williams, until the last 8 years or so.

Jacksonville had black starting QBs for 8 consecutive years through 2010.

[Patler]

Hearing is the 23rd of Jan. He has two possible games left before something could happen.

If the Packers are still playing, I'm sure nothing will happen then, if the league waits for a final disposition of the case before leveling their punishment. It shouldn't be difficult to push it out into the off season.

[pbmax]

Did you mean Partials list of players, or my identification of teams? Either way, what is the difference if there is spacing over time? The facts are that they commetted to black QBs when they had them and they earned it.

The point sharp cheddar made was that the Packers (possibly other franchises) would in this day refuse to start an AA or black QB. I think its a patently wrong assertion today for any franchise. But I think as recently as 1995, it was still a open question about whether some franchises were reluctant.

Your list made me think of Doug Williams(78), Rodney Peete(89) and Culpepper(99) off the top of my head. Starting with Williams drafting in 1978, there was a long chain of one or two AA starters or near starters in the NFL. You could start earlier with James Harris (Bills/Pitt-'69) or Vince Harris (Chicago-'77) though their starting stints were not continuous.

I believe the last gap with no black starters at all would be after Williams left Tampa and Moon getting signed by Houston. Overall at this point, first AA starters for franchises were few and far between. 2/3 of League franchises had never started a black QB when Moon started playing for Houston.

Moon defined the end of that era with Randall Cunningham and Steve McNair. That this group coincided and started together in the 1990s was a pretty remarkable change at the time.* It was both continuous, more than one or two scufflers, and they were the unquestioned starters.

But more than a third of the NFL started their first AA QB after McNair was drafted (1995). Seattle, Baltimore, KC, NO, Atl, Jax, Miami, Carolina, SF, Houston, GB and NE all started their first black QB after McNair was in the League.


*You could mention Jeff Blake drafted in 1994, but I don't think he started his rookie year.

[Freak Out]

Hearing is the 23rd of Jan. He has two possible games left before something could happen.

Thanks PB.

[gbgary]

So...this won't affect his availability will it? I mean by a suspension not being wasted and forgetting about the game.

read it won't affect this post season. will probably be one game next season.

[Patler]

The point sharp cheddar made was that the Packers (possibly other franchises) would in this day refuse to start an AA or black QB. I think its a patently wrong assertion today for any franchise. But I think as recently as 1995, it was still a open question about whether some franchises were reluctant.

Your list made me think of Doug Williams(78), Rodney Peete(89) and Culpepper(99) off the top of my head. Starting with Williams drafting in 1978, there was a long chain of one or two AA starters or near starters in the NFL. You could start earlier with James Harris (Bills/Pitt-'69) or Vince Harris (Chicago-'77) though their starting stints were not continuous.

I believe the last gap with no black starters at all would be after Williams left Tampa and Moon getting signed by Houston. Overall at this point, first AA starters for franchises were few and far between. 2/3 of League franchises had never started a black QB when Moon started playing for Houston.

Moon defined the end of that era with Randall Cunningham and Steve McNair. That this group coincided and started together in the 1990s was a pretty remarkable change at the time.* It was both continuous, more than one or two scufflers, and they were the unquestioned starters.

But more than a third of the NFL started their first AA QB after McNair was drafted (1995). Seattle, Baltimore, KC, NO, Atl, Jax, Miami, Carolina, SF, Houston, GB and NE all started their first black QB after McNair was in the League.


*You could mention Jeff Blake drafted in 1994, but I don't think he started his rookie year.

Williams at TB is a good place to start, but even that turned into a negative when the team refused to offer more than what the lowest starting QBs made. I never understood why they let him leave. He wasn't asking for a fortune. His career at TB was a promising start for black QBs in the NFL, but then became a setback because of the money/value/respect thing, and as you wrote, there weren't many after him for a few years..

[Joemailman]

If the Packers are still playing, I'm sure nothing will happen then, if the league waits for a final disposition of the case before leveling their punishment. It shouldn't be difficult to push it out into the off season.

I would think the only way anything could happen before the Super Bowl is if he pleads guilty at the hearing. Even then, if the Packers are going to be in the Super Bowl, the NFL might just decide to push this off until the offseason.

[hoosier]

The point sharp cheddar made was that the Packers (possibly other franchises) would in this day refuse to start an AA or black QB. I think its a patently wrong assertion today for any franchise. But I think as recently as 1995, it was still a open question about whether some franchises were reluctant.

Your list made me think of Doug Williams(78), Rodney Peete(89) and Culpepper(99) off the top of my head. Starting with Williams drafting in 1978, there was a long chain of one or two AA starters or near starters in the NFL. You could start earlier with James Harris (Bills/Pitt-'69) or Vince Harris (Chicago-'77) though their starting stints were not continuous.

I believe the last gap with no black starters at all would be after Williams left Tampa and Moon getting signed by Houston. Overall at this point, first AA starters for franchises were few and far between. 2/3 of League franchises had never started a black QB when Moon started playing for Houston.

Moon defined the end of that era with Randall Cunningham and Steve McNair. That this group coincided and started together in the 1990s was a pretty remarkable change at the time.* It was both continuous, more than one or two scufflers, and they were the unquestioned starters.

But more than a third of the NFL started their first AA QB after McNair was drafted (1995). Seattle, Baltimore, KC, NO, Atl, Jax, Miami, Carolina, SF, Houston, GB and NE all started their first black QB after McNair was in the League.


*You could mention Jeff Blake drafted in 1994, but I don't think he started his rookie year.

Vince Harris = Vince Evans.

Trivia question: what is the only current NFL team never to have started an African American player at QB?

[Guiness]

Vince Harris = Vince Evans.

Trivia question: what is the only current NFL team never to have started an African American player at QB?

Is there 1 or 2? Patriots just had a black starter this season, pretty sure that was their first. I can't think of one for the Colts or Giants.

Not sure how your considering Tennessee franchise...Oilers obviously had one, did the Titans?

Oh...Vince Young. Ya, scratch the Titans!

[texaspackerbacker]

Am I reading this right? People are saying the Packers never started a black QB? Has everybody forgotten the disaster that was Seneca Wallace?

[Guiness]

Am I reading this right? People are saying the Packers never started a black QB? Has everybody forgotten the disaster that was Seneca Wallace?

I don't think anybody said that, did they? Wallace's starting career with the Packers has to rank among the all time shortest though...one drive IIRC.

[Zool]

PB, every time you type AA QB, I think they are drunk.

[pbmax]

Am I reading this right? People are saying the Packers never started a black QB? Has everybody forgotten the disaster that was Seneca Wallace?

I took the original post about this point (not the OP of the thread) was that the Packers would never name a black QB full time to starting QB. Implication was that Hundley is not going to be the Packers starter ever due to race.

No idea if they forgot about Wallace or not.

I do think there is a difference between a journeyman backup QB starting during an injury situation and moving a guy to the position full time. The former measures, in a certain way, the existence of the number of vets around (in itself a decent indicator that people are getting a chance like Vince Evans or James Harris - thanks hoosier). The latter much more of an endorsement that you don't care. Neither is perfect, because identifying the best prospects is still a 50% game of chance. I do think that retrograde attitudes were assisted in this matter by NFL offenses and payroll structure, where the QB is too valuable to most front offices to allow the HC and OC to develop a college-like offense. And that makes the transition to the pros even harder and more limiting.

Smart Football has pointed out that given the dearth of 6' 4" QBs with rocket arms, agile minds and enough mobility to survive are so rare that it is flat irrational not to develop an offense to take advantage of the talent on hand in college. If you were the Browns, could you really do worse? Ron Wolf was irrational for other reasons when he thought John Schneider shouldn't have drafted Russell Wilson.

But I think the time when teams would not consider a black QB has passed. Though not every team has done both (answer to the earlier trivia is the NY Giants), I suppose more possible there are holdouts, or at least people who think white QBs overall tend to be better prospects.

[pbmax]

PB, every time you type AA QB, I think they are drunk.

QBoC seemed likely to cause even more confusion.

I also don't want to defend Mark Sanchez.

[hoosier]

Is there 1 or 2? Patriots just had a black starter this season, pretty sure that was their first. I can't think of one for the Colts or Giants.

Not sure how your considering Tennessee franchise...Oilers obviously had one, did the Titans?

Oh...Vince Young. Ya, scratch the Titans!

Colts started Josh Freeman in the final game of 2015 season when both Luck and Hasselback were hurt. They won the game and then they cut him.

Your other answer is the correct one, as PB McGee also pointed out.