"TED THOMPSONS FORMULA FOR SUCCESS SIZZLES ""

[texaspackerbacker]

Did you read the article Tex? Not facts and not truth.

To suggest that Thompson was negligent by not trading for Rowe at the end of camp when everyone - including McGinn - said the Packers cornerback crew was deep, talented and full of promise - is simply not an honest, factual argument.

To suggest that Thompson was negligent for not signing two over-the-hill, me-first, character problems - after criticizing Thompson as a "win at all costs" GM in the "gutter" for previously signing two talented players not over the hill - one of which was quickly removed from the team and the other successfully battled his alcoholism by all accounts during his time with the team - is not an honest, factual argument.

To suggest that Thompson is negligent for not signing vet FA's (which he does of course) because in part the Packers enjoy "unlimited" resources to do so is not an honest, factual argument.

To suggest that Thompson is negligent for not signing a bunch of vet FA's on the offense and defensive front when it couldn't be any more clear - as McGinn goes on to argue from the other side of his mouth - that it was the defensive cornerback depletion that proved to be their undoing in the NFC Championship game - is not just not an honest, factual argument but a foolish one to boot.

I'll leave your conspiracy theory and incompetence argument to drown themselves against the most successful decade of football in the NFC and the second most successful reign in the league. I know, take away Rodgers and the team would suck. Right.

All of those "suggestions" were your interpretation - he just detailed what did or didn't happen. And emphatically YES, take away Aaron Rodgers, and the past decade of Packer football would have sucked big time - thanks to Ted. The most important point, I say again, is that almost all of those guys would have been dirt cheap and easy to get rid of if they didn't show some value real quick.

[texaspackerbacker]

You know, I don't want to argue about it because it's totally a subjective evaluation, but personally I don't look at the Green Bay Packers over the last decade and think "Success!"

"Success!" to me means appearing in a Super Bowl and winning it. As far as I'm concerned, the "Success!" rate of the Packers over the past 10 years is 10%. That's almost as bad as the Brewers or the Bucks.

Yeah, it's nice the Packers are in the playoffs every season. I enjoy the extra games watching my favorite team. But when they fail to get to the big game, it's a severe disappointment, amplified by the horrible way in which they almost invariably lose.

This year I take no satisfaction in the Packers' playoff performances. Yeah, I admired our team's "backs against the wall" effort, but after all is said and done, I'd feel better now if they had gone 4-12 because they'd have a chance to draft some first flight players and nothing would be off the table to turn things around. They'd be "all in" to fix what ails them...

And what ails them is not making it to the Super Bowl.

As things stand now the Powers That Be can sit around and pat themselves on the back over their "Success!ful" season. Now they can blame their failure on a run of bad injury luck and they can plan on doing the same old thing over again next season and we can expect the same result.

I know teams can't win the Super Bowl every year. I know that's an unrealistically high standard. I know the Packers have been the second best team over the last decade.

I don't care. I don't want to settle for 2nd best.

But that's just me and I won't change my mind. If that makes me a knuckle-dragger, so be it.

That's why I won't argue about it.

I completely agree about the "Success!" - that's why it conflicts me to rag on Ted for not maximizing things. I say that as somebody who values winning so much in the regular season at least as much as the playoffs and Super Bowl. And when you make the Bucks and Brewers comparison, it's even more obvious.

But it is what it is with Ted Thompson, and I can't help thinking what it could be/SHOULD BE with Aaron Rodgers.

[vince]

All of those "suggestions" were your interpretation - he just detailed what did or didn't happen. And emphatically YES, take away Aaron Rodgers, and the past decade of Packer football would have sucked big time - thanks to Ted. The most important point, I say again, is that almost all of those guys would have been dirt cheap and easy to get rid of if they didn't show some value real quick.

Tex are you sure you read the article? His characterization of Thompson, supported by the series of what can only be described as either dishonest and hypocritical or utterly foolish arguments (I think we all know McGinn's not foolish.) is clear and scathing.

McGinn does more than detail facts. All of these accusations and assessments are either gross exaggerations to the point of ridiculousness or flat out untrue assertions intended to provoke a reaction - and I have no doubt McGinn knows that.

Pot Stirring Drama to the Extreme
"How can he look the coaches in the face?" "Ted loves to sit on his hands." "He's not even trying to get better." "He's burying his head in the sand." "It must be so depressing to know nothing will change." "He just wants the status quo."

There is no truth in any of that provocative drama. The fact that the highly successful and experienced GM disagrees with McGinn's ex post facto assertions about how any competent GM would have acted doesn't make McGinn correct. And Ole Cromartie is the best he can come up with in his attempts to delegitimize Thompson?

To make it the character assassination/incompetence piece more ethically disturbing, McGinn criticizes Thompson for taking the franchise into the "gutter" and selling out his character standards on one hand, then turns around and criticizes Thompson for not signing 2 guys with major character concerns. That's the definition of hypocrisy. He has no standards of journalistic integrity whatsoever when it comes to his ongoing anti-Thompson smear campaign.

It goes on and on. You can hang on to your incompetency opinion until you're blue in the face but you're ignoring the reality of what McGinn's doing in this propaganda piece. And the unrealistic Ted bashing crew are all too happy to gobble the nonsense and double-standards right up.

[texaspackerbacker]

I reread the article, and I still say virtually all of it is a recitation of things that happened or didn't happen. Yeah, there was a small amount of editorial exaggeration, and yeah, he's trying to stir the pot - probably because that's what people like him do to stimulate reader interest. I really hate defending McGinn, who as I said, I've never liked, but did you see ANY untrue statements? I sure didn't. Or any not defensible lines? Your "Pot Stirring" paragraph above all rings true with me. And I still have this nagging thought that maybe it AIN'T incompetence, but rather some hidden agenda for the way he runs things - maybe not dragging the team down like I said I used to believe, but more like cheapness - putting corporate profit ahead of fielding the best possible team.

[vince]

If your only definition of success is championships, I'd guess they're pretty meaningful... You say the Packers are almost as bad as the Bucks and Brewers, and Tex says the comparison is obvious. Failure all around.

Milwaukee Brewers - 47 years, 0 Championships, 0 since 2005
Milwaukee Bucks - 49 years, 1 Championship, 0 since 2005
Green Bay Packers - 96 years, 13 Championships, 1 since 2005

1 championship in the last 11 years is infinitely greater than nearly 50 years of almost complete disappointment. 1971 was an awfully long time ago to have any satisfaction. 46 years. Damn.

Green Bay has another 40 years to go. You won't have to wait nearly that long to get rid of Thompson so take heart.

[vince]

I reread the article, and I still say virtually all of it is a recitation of things that happened or didn't happen. Yeah, there was a small amount of editorial exaggeration, and yeah, he's trying to stir the pot - probably because that's what people like him do to stimulate reader interest. I really hate defending McGinn, who as I said, I've never liked, but did you see ANY untrue statements? I sure didn't. Or any not defensible lines? Your "Pot Stirring" paragraph above all rings true with me. And I still have this nagging thought that maybe it AIN'T incompetence, but rather some hidden agenda for the way he runs things - maybe not dragging the team down like I said I used to believe, but more like cheapness - putting corporate profit ahead of fielding the best possible team.

Carry on Tex. McGinn actually laid the truth right out for you. Ted doesn't even want to win. Never has but it's not a conspiracy per se. He just wants the status quo so he does't have to sign any free agents. He hates those guys - with a passion, and he's deathly afraid of change. It's rare but there's a name for it - Free Agent Metathesiophobia by Proxy - and he hasn't yet recovered from the Cook episode. He probably won't ever recover from that one since we know with certainty that nothing will change ever again as long as Ted remains in charge. That HAS to ring true doesn't it?

[Teamcheez1]

There will be 31 teams at the end of this season eviscerating either/both their coaching staffs and general manager.

I'm not saying there can't be improvements and changes, however only one team will be happy when all is said and done.

[Maxie the Taxi]

In the end it's a sport man - a great one, and we can't control it - so we shouldn't let it control us. I guess that's what fans do though, and the bigger the game, the more control we seem to give it, and the more susceptible our egos become to it.

If I'm honest I'd say I enjoy a good argument...

I agree 100%. Fans approach the game from different perspectives and for different reasons and one reason is as good as another. In the end it's only a game. Add all this to the dictum that there is more than one way to skin a cat and you've got the makings of great fun. That's probably why most of us are here. LOL

[esoxx]

There's no reason to start a season with 15 rookies/first year players as the Pack did this year. This is an admission that drafting and developing didn't go so well in recent past. So you have one of the youngest teams in the league again. Then when injuries strike, which they inevitably will in such a violent game, you get these greenhorns out there on the field and it looks like a Chinese fire drill* out there. Especially on defense.

Would like to see them augment the roster with some vets so when the time comes that they're needed, they have an idea where to be and what to do.

*apologies to any Chinese I may have offended in the making of this post.

[texaspackerbacker]

Carry on Tex. McGinn actually laid the truth right out for you. Ted doesn't even want to win. Never has but it's not a conspiracy per se. He just wants the status quo so he does't have to sign any free agents. He hates those guys - with a passion, and he's deathly afraid of change. It's rare but there's a name for it - Free Agent Metathesiophobia by Proxy - and he hasn't yet recovered from the Cook episode. He probably won't ever recover from that one since we know with certainty that nothing will change ever again as long as Ted remains in charge. That HAS to ring true doesn't it?

Actually, yes hahahaha.

[texaspackerbacker]

There will be 31 teams at the end of this season eviscerating either/both their coaching staffs and general manager.

I'm not saying there can't be improvements and changes, however only one team will be happy when all is said and done.

Yes, but 30 other teams will not end up losing while possessing the greatest QB in the history of the world.

[texaspackerbacker]

If your only definition of success is championships, I'd guess they're pretty meaningful... You say the Packers are almost as bad as the Bucks and Brewers, and Tex says the comparison is obvious. Failure all around.

Milwaukee Brewers - 47 years, 0 Championships, 0 since 2005
Milwaukee Bucks - 49 years, 1 Championship, 0 since 2005
Green Bay Packers - 96 years, 13 Championships, 1 since 2005

1 championship in the last 11 years is infinitely greater than nearly 50 years of almost complete disappointment. 1971 was an awfully long time ago to have any satisfaction. 46 years. Damn.

Green Bay has another 40 years to go. You won't have to wait nearly that long to get rid of Thompson so take heart.

Thanks for laying out those facts for us all hahahahaha. My point that the Packers have been a lot better than the Bucks or Brewers - over the last 20 or 25 years anyway. Go back a little farther than that, and you have some decent Bucks years and even a few good Brewers seasons in the midst of the long Packer period of crap between Lombardi and Holmgren. And you're right, it ain't all championships. Not winning it all while having Aaron Rodgers, though, is akin to not winning the NBA when the Bucks had Kareem/Alcindor. The Bucks at least had the excuse of conspiratorial bad officiating, though.

Maxie, you do realize, Vince (Lombardi, not our poster here) is turning over in his grave reading what you said about only a game, etc. That's true, to some extent, but I can remember back to my college days (the Lombardi era) if the Packers lost, it seemed like the whole state of Wisconsin was in a funk until the following Sunday.

[Carolina_Packer]

There's no reason to start a season with 15 rookies/first year players as the Pack did this year. This is an admission that drafting and developing didn't go so well in recent past. So you have one of the youngest teams in the league again. Then when injuries strike, which they inevitably will in such a violent game, you get these greenhorns out there on the field and it looks like a Chinese fire drill* out there. Especially on defense.

Would like to see them augment the roster with some vets so when the time comes that they're needed, they have an idea where to be and what to do.

*apologies to any Chinese I may have offended in the making of this post.

Re-sign Casey Hayward and outbid the Bears for Brandon Boykin and you've got some nice depth at corner, instead of being left with greenhorns for depth when the injuries mounted. Even though not out for the season, you can't tell me that Randall and Rollins didn't have their play affected by injury. Hayward was an interesting non-signing. Perhaps Ted and Co. were a bit over-confident in what they had. Even healthy, I think they still would have struggled. Look at the guys who were available during last off-season's free agency.

Look, I'm not talking about signing guys during the season to plug holes. I'm talking about giving serious consideration to who is available at the start of free agency and getting them in ASAP for the off-season program. Casey Hayward and Brandon Boykin could have been difference makers, the Packers could have fit them under the cap, and so sorry Josh Hawkins and Makinton Dorleant. We like your talent, we just need some guys who have some experience.

I agree that TT should roll the dice on free agency more, but not after all the guys are hurt, but when we need to start building the team from the start of the off-season. You don't have to give up a lot of guaranteed money to get back some good, experienced talent that don't need a ton of hand-holding, like our cornerback depth does.

[vince]

There's no reason to start a season with 15 rookies/first year players as the Pack did this year. This is an admission that drafting and developing didn't go so well in recent past. So you have one of the youngest teams in the league again. Then when injuries strike, which they inevitably will in such a violent game, you get these greenhorns out there on the field and it looks like a Chinese fire drill* out there. Especially on defense.

Would like to see them augment the roster with some vets so when the time comes that they're needed, they have an idea where to be and what to do.

*apologies to any Chinese I may have offended in the making of this post.

Other than a handful of busted plays by Spriggs, the one muffed punt by Davis, and Hawkins getting beat one time early on (the lone Chinese fire drill perhaps), the rookies and first-year players that saw the field did OK for themselves.

There were valuable contributions from Allison, Brice, Clark, Lowry, Martinez, and Spriggs (at times).

81 Allison, Geronimo WR 6-3 202 23 R Illinois
29 Brice, Kentrell S 5-11 200 22 R Louisiana Tech
6 Callahan, Joe QB 6-1 216 23 R Wesley
97 Clark, Kenny DT 6-3 314 21 R UCLA
11 Davis, Trevor WR 6-1 188 23 R California
25 Evans, Marwin S 5-11 211 23 R Utah State
51 Fackrell, Kyler LB 6-5 245 25 R Utah State
57 Flores, Jacob C 6-3 300 23 R Dartmouth
93 Gilbert, Reggie LB 6-3 261 23 R Arizona
19 Goodley, Antwan WR 5-10 212 25 1 Baylor
28 Hawkins, Josh CB 5-10 189 24 R East Carolina
40 Kerridge, Joe FB 6-0 245 24 R Michigan
94 Lowry, Dean DE 6-6 296 22 R Northwestern
50 Martinez, Blake LB 6-2 237 23 R Stanford
49 Mathews, Derrick LB 6-0 232 24 1 Houston
13 McCaffrey, Max WR 6-2 200 22 R Duke
68 Murphy, Kyle T 6-6 305 23 R Stanford
62 Patrick, Lucas G 6-3 313 23 R Duke
Pepper, Taybor LS 6-4 245 22 R Michigan State
96 Price, Brian DT 6-3 318 22 R Texas-San Antonio
99 Ringo, Christian DT 6-1 298 24 1 Louisiana-Lafayette
85 Sandland, Beau TE 6-5 252 23 R Montana State
78 Spriggs, Jason T 6-6 301 22 R Indiana
26 Waters, Herb CB 6-0 188 24 R Miami
35 Whitehead, Jermaine S 5-11 195 23 1 Auburn

These guys consistently kicked the crap out of the opposition's developmental guys all preseason long. At times they competed strong against first/second teamers.

[vince]

A lot of people are criticizing Thompson for not using free agency more to this point, and others of us are anticipating a critical need at the #1 corner position, which could potentially be filled in free agency this year.

With the input of Bill Polian, Howie Roseman, and others, here is a pretty strong cautionary list of the
Six Modern-Day Commandments of NFL Free Agency

Violation of these commandments may be forgiven (with penance), but sinning is not to be taken lightly. Habitual sinners can find themselves suffering an eternity in hell.

1. Thou Shalt Wait for the Storm to Passeth

Every year, the first week of free agency brings a feeding (and paying) frenzy, in which the "top names" are hurriedly signed to top-dollar deals. Think about the first-week, big-money free agent signings of the past few offseasons, in which teams eager to improve their rosters convince themselves that they simply must get a certain player or players and, as a result, get caught up in a bidding war for their services. This is the epitome of short-view thinking and, almost invariably, they overpay because of it.

Think about it: when was the last time the Patriots, Steelers, Colts, or Packers jumped into the first-week overpaying frenzy? They haven't, because they are patient, stable, rational organizations.

2. Thou Shalt Avert Thy Gaze From the Heavens

Bill Polian offered a list of free agency do's and don'ts. Number five on his list? "realize that you are never one player away from a championship." O.C.C. agrees; he writes, "Don't ever think that you're just one or two players away, because no team ever is, especially not in this era of the NFL." With parity and the number of injuries every year, no team is ever a single player away.

Since teams learned how to manage the free agency, salary cap controlled NFL landscape, almost nobody fails to keep the players that they want to retain. Thus, the guys who are on the market are there because their old teams, who know them best, didn't want them.

And this is the rub: free agents' former teams know much, much more about them than the teams that acquires their services...and have decided to let them go. If a guy was a star in the clubhouse and on the field, you can rest assured that he wouldn't be available. But every year, at free agent time, teams forget this - and overpay for the promise of a salvation that never comes.

3. Thou Shalt Forsake the Aged

A cardinal rule--perhaps the cardinal rule--of managing the salary cap is to avoid giving multi-year contracts with guaranteed money to players - notably excepting franchise caliber quarterbacks - 30 years of age or older. The key is to avoid offering third contracts, which tend to be signed by players who are in the 28-30-year-old range. Indeed, in his insider piece, Polian says that teams mustn't "give a four-year or longer contract, even to an A [level] player, who is 28 years of age or older."

4. Thou Shalt Take Care of Thine Own Sons

Closely related to the above commandment is this: good teams draft well, coach up their players and offer certain core guys reasonable second contracts before they hit free agency.
This is good business. On many levels, it's smarter to reward the guys other players see working their tails off on the practice field and film room than to spend big bucks on "independent contractors," the equivalent of football mercenaries. As Roseman notes:
When you bring in guys that maybe are good players but not great and pay them great player money, what does that say to the rest of your team? What does that say to the guys that you drafted and brought in here...what kind of message does that send?
The short answer: not a very good one. Rather than gambling on players your rivals decided they didn't want after scouting, drafting and paying them, and in spending thousands of hours in developing and honing their skill sets, its always best to keep the guys you have brought into your program and developed.

5. Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbor's Mediocrities

The vast majority of available free agents every season are Larry Browns: serviceable vets, many of whom were cogs in a well-oiled machine – but not your machine. Plus the fact that some of them happen to play for elite teams raises their value far beyond their ability. The schemes and systems vary more from club to club, and one’s playing style must mesh with that of those around him. For stars, this isn’t a problem. But for flawed players, it can be. The flaws can be difficult to spot, as things like character and injuries are hard to grasp by those who are not inside the building or around the player every day.
“For the players allowed to hit free agency, the flaws are generally worse than people realize. The system is designed to have you make mistakes,” cautioned Polian. Mid-tier players always have flags, often many.
Durability Flag
Contract Year Flag
Character Flag
Role Flag
Inconsistency/In-Decline Flag
Overpriced Flag

6. Thou Shalt Not Atone For Past Sins With Further Sinning

This is the free agent vortex in which many teams become trapped: making up for draft failings by filling holes via big-ticket free agency signings. The key to this final tenet is, of course, that a team must draft well, so that they can replace veterans with youngsters who can actually play.