"TED THOMPSONS FORMULA FOR SUCCESS SIZZLES ""

[Zool]

So you just keep throwing crap at the wall hoping eventually it sticks?

Or you make smaller scale changes. How often to wholesale changes produce instant or positive results?

[bobblehead]

Yes I was right.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=career&year_min=2007&year_max=2016&game_type=E&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&week_num_min=0&week_num_max=99&temperature_gtlt=lt&team_conf_id=All+Conferences&team_div_id=All+Divisions&opp_conf_id=All+Conferences&opp_div_id=All+Divisions&team_off_scheme=Any+Scheme&team_def_align=Any+Alignment&opp_off_scheme=Any+Scheme&opp_def_align=Any+Alignment&c1stat=choose&c1comp=gt&c2stat=choose&c2comp=gt&c3stat=choose&c3comp=gt&c4stat=choose&c4comp=gt&c5comp=choose&c5gtlt=lt&c6mult=1.0&c6comp=choose&order_by=pass_td

Surprisingly New Orleans is the 2nd winningest NFC team of the last decade, 7th best overall in terms of winning %.

That list includes playoff games as well BTW.

Can't believe that organization is wasting a first ballot HOF QB with only one SB trophy. FIRE THEM ALL!!!

[bobblehead]

* It must also be acknowledged for the sake of truth and justice that The Bob has determined that Wolf's record has defined THE WAY to winning, while Thompson's record is completely in spite of himself.

That was what i actually meant. I knew we were among the NFL best last 10 years.

[bobblehead]

Blasphemy. Boldly signing many free agents is THE WAY.

Given Green Bay's virtually unlimited financial resources, continuously signing and dumping players to achieve continous improvement maximizes quality. Anything less just isn't even trying.

Between Mccarthy and Thompson, there's just not enough intelligence in the room.

in an era with no cap and Reggie White available, TT wouldn't even make him an offer.

[Rutnstrut]

Or you make smaller scale changes. How often to wholesale changes produce instant or positive results?

if he actually makes small scale changes, hell yeah. But if TT continues to insist that the ONLY way is DD, get rid of his ass.

[Zool]

if he actually makes small scale changes, hell yeah. But if TT continues to insist that the ONLY way is DD, get rid of his ass.

I think the idea of keeping Capers is the fly in the ointment right now. If the GM thinks that he's providing enough talent, then it's on the DC to make it go. It's been in neutral or reverse for 6 years.

If McCarthy has full control of the coaching staff, and if I were GM, I'd be holding his feet to the fire. Something needs to change on D. The GM isn't going to fire himself, and his track record on the O side is proven, so change something somewhere. If they actually make no changes then its probably time to make larger changes.

Unfortunately none of use can do shit about it.

[pbmax]

I think the idea of keeping Capers is the fly in the ointment right now. If the GM thinks that he's providing enough talent, then it's on the DC to make it go. It's been in neutral or reverse for 6 years.

If McCarthy has full control of the coaching staff, and if I were GM, I'd be holding his feet to the fire. Something needs to change on D. The GM isn't going to fire himself, and his track record on the O side is proven, so change something somewhere. If they actually make no changes then its probably time to make larger changes.

Unfortunately none of use can do shit about it.

I agree with this assessment. I am not certain there was personnel fix to the CBs this year. Its still a failure, but given the way things shook out after camp, it was going to be bad. That is on the front office, preventable or not.

What is in excusable is that there isn't some baseline to fall back on, something they are all trained to execute well that they can do in their sleep.

Maybe Randall was too hurt and not practicing enough to make it work, so you can't pass judgement on this single year.

But both Zool and rutnstrut have a point on the D side of the ball, it happens too often injuries or no, to be allowed to continue. Something needs to change.

1. Simplify pass defense as installed in offseason. Work on man and some kinda zone.

2. Improve productivity in draft on defense, or decide that certain players don't work for this defense

3. Don't get carried away with substitution groups and specialization on D. When those guys get hurt, you have to adjust to the backup AND the change in how the subgroup works.

[Deputy Nutz]

Thompson's strategy is simply, always be in contention and catch that little bit of luck to make deep in the playoffs.

Roster wise it seems that he always has the Packers lined up in the right direction at the beginning of the season and then it usually takes a detour at some point in the season. Maybe it is just the optimism a new season brings and the hope potential finally turns into results with the young players.

It is a no brainer that Thompson's strategy is to build his roster through the draft and then sign his own players. I can't remember the last time that he traded a player (Favre?). Seems that he hangs on to guys just a bit to long and they have no value on the trade market (Sitton), and then he has to release them.

I suppose the biggest issue I say for the Packers is that Thompson is in charge of all personnel decisions and he takes very little advise from the board. There is no owner in GB that can tell Thompson to go out and sign a pass rusher, or a defensive back. Thompson hides from the media because there is no owner holding him accountable. Thompson can sit in his dark film room and ignore the world. Owners can be problems, but fans always want to compare the Packers to the Patriots, the Patriots have Kraft and Hoodie who work extremely well together. The Patriots think outside the box and actively sign players and draft players that fit their system on offense and defense. Look at their Wide Receiver position, it is not a coincidence that the Patriots' best receivers are small, quick, sure handed white guys that know how to destroy a zone defense and are quick enough to beat single coverage with crossing routes and quick passes. The Patriots also are not afraid to go out and get what they think they need. Look at the Bennett trade. They needed another play making TE and they went out and traded for one. It has worked out extremely well, better than the 5th round pick they gave up for him.

It is a proven fact that the Packers will always be in contention as long as Aaron Rodgers is around and Healthy, same as Tom Brady. The Packers front office is the issue, not the coaching. The Packers have a roster including Rodgers that can compete for division titles but not Super Bowls, taking a couple risks in free agency and trading might take this team over the hump, otherwise get used to the Packers being the bridesmaid in the NFC.

[Fritz]

I keep wondering why the defense, with so many first round picks on that side of the ball, sucks ass compared to the offense. Is it Dom? Or is Ted just really shitty at picking defensive talent? McGinn points out that Ted seems to like to draft corners who weren't corners. Is that Ted being dumb, or Ted drafting later in the first round every year so needing to find athleticism that's not available in corners that have plied their trade for a few years in college (since they'd get drafted earlier)?

I don't know. My initial reaction is to push Ted to do something about how he drafts defensive players. Use different scouts, give someone else in the room a bigger voice in the selection, something. That was, for whatever reason, a really really shitty bunch of cornerbacks at the end of the season. And the pass rushers sucked, too. It didn't seem to matter if Dom rushed three or rushed six; rarely did anyone get home - and I don't mean just the Falcons game, either.

[pbmax]

It is a proven fact that the Packers will always be in contention as long as Aaron Rodgers is around and Healthy, same as Tom Brady. The Packers front office is the issue, not the coaching. The Packers have a roster including Rodgers that can compete for division titles but not Super Bowls, taking a couple risks in free agency and trading might take this team over the hump, otherwise get used to the Packers being the bridesmaid in the NFC.

Rodgers guarantees .500. Not playoff contention in any meaningful way.

[vince]

I'm for a new direction on defense but I'll also say this. I don't know shit. You have to know what the problem is, and it's not "the defense sucks for some reason so let's fire the coach." That type of reactionary behavior is why so many teams cycle through new coaching staffs every couple years and get nowhere for long periods of time.

He may be wrong about it, but my sense is that McCarthy believes he understands the problem (not Capers), and what needs to happen to fix it. The fact that the defensive performance has been so inconsistent is troubling, but the fact that they've been good in between being bad, and when they've been bad, it's always been a different issue suggests the problems have been moving targets. They're effective in one area and poor in another. They successfully address the area needing improvement and have a good year - then another thing pops up the next. Personnel, injuries, overcompensating, scheme, and a whole host of issues can cause problems. The fact that it's different things at different times probably suggests that Capers ISN'T the issue.

It's always convenient to scapegoat the Coordinator, as countless assistants know all to well, and if Capers is the problem then let's solve it, but they need to know what's going on and take action to address the problem, not cycle through coaches because something's not right and hoping the new guy does better.

[Deputy Nutz]

When the Packers had their best tandem at cornerback under Thompson they were Woodson and Williams. Williams was signed as a non drafted rookie, and Woodson was Thompson's greatest free agent signing. Sam Shields later developed into a starting cornerback, he was an undrafted rookie. Randall, Rollins, and Hyde were all drafted by Thompson and Hyde has never played as a conventional cornerback. Randall was hybrid safety/corner in a college scheme that relied heavily on man to man coverage. Rollins had only one year of college football. Casey Hayward was a corner in college but had questionable top end speed and played inside. He was left to free agency because of hamstring injuries and the drafting of Rollins, and Randall. The fault in all of this was not recognizing that top end speed and the ability to turn hips and run with a receiver on the outside is a very particular skill set. He hasn't yet drafted a guy suited to play on the outside receiver. Maybe Thompson and his staff struggle to identify these qualities in potential draft picks, but then can see it when they are non drafted free agents? I don't get it.

[Deputy Nutz]

Rodgers guarantees .500. Not playoff contention in any meaningful way.

ok so then the rest of the roster is good for one or two wins.

Factor it this way if Rodgers blew his knee out ala Teddy Bridgewater how many games would the Packer have won? With the current roster and how the season broke with injuries and factoring the impact of Rodgers during games I would say the Packers would have won two games at the most.

Take the Patriots that went 3-1 when Brady was suspended. They shuffled three different QBs during that time due to injury. The Packers simply do not have a roster of guys especially on defense that will allow them to compete for World Championships.

[Rutnstrut]

ok so then the rest of the roster is good for one or two wins.

Factor it this way if Rodgers blew his knee out ala Teddy Bridgewater how many games would the Packer have won? With the current roster and how the season broke with injuries and factoring the impact of Rodgers during games I would say the Packers would have won two games at the most.

Take the Patriots that went 3-1 when Brady was suspended. They shuffled three different QBs during that time due to injury. The Packers simply do not have a roster of guys especially on defense that will allow them to compete for World Championships.

Nor do the Packers have a coaching staff anywhere close to as talented as the Patriots.

[Netmag]

I think that overall the draft strategy works well as long as you have great players in key positions as a base. We've been lucky enough to have that at the most key position for quite some time. The rest is about putting together the other pieces effectively and staying healthy at the right time. This year was a good finish, but we just didn't have enough pieces in place at the right time (especially on D).

In order not to squander our special situation at QB, we need to put the odds in our favor a little bit more. Like the Patriots, you do that by filling some deficiencies with proven assets in certain areas. You can still get most through the draft, but you can't just hope and wish for every single one of those rookies to hit it big in order to close the deal on the Superbowl. I think they're 90% fine with what they're doing now, but they need to be just a little bit more aggressive at filling in the deficiencies with some proven assets.
No, it still won't guarantee anything 100% (there could be key injuries, etc) but what we'd be doing is maximizing the odds. I want to see TT at least attempt to maximize our odds so that we don't just let Rodgers fade with no support like we did Favre. I don't want to just sit and be happy with Rodgers' circus-like weekly heroics and a guaranteed .500 + whatever else we happen to get.