Official Vince Biegel 2017 Fourth Round Choice

[Pugger]

It can never be justified to over draft a guy just to fill a need. I want to fill needs, but would argue we either trade up to get the requisite value, or stay put and take a player at another position who is worthy of that pick.

Biegel may play a position of need, but I don't think he fills it - just as I don't think Fackrell fills it. That's 2 mid-round spitballs that Ted has thrown at a critical position, combined with the mid-round spitballs that are Ryan and Martinez. Everyone of those guys is athletically limited, and hence have low ceilings.

In short, TT is not filling holes in the starting lineup, he's playing his same old quantity game in hopes of hitting on one of them.

What EDGE player at that spot in the draft would have been a better choice?

[pbmax]

There is ample evidence that teams cannot identify successful NFL players at better than a 50% clip. None of them do that well over time.

So quantity over "quality" is a winning strategy. That isn't to say you want all 7th round picks, but you do want more rather than less overall.

[Pugger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuOcKH_QHHM

[Harlan Huckleby]

[wist43]

There is ample evidence that teams cannot identify successful NFL players at better than a 50% clip. None of them do that well over time.

So quantity over "quality" is a winning strategy. That isn't to say you want all 7th round picks, but you do want more rather than less overall.

You're missing the point...

The point is - if you don't trade up from a given spot, you can't force a pick for a player based on position. I would rather have seen him take a player with more upside at another position, than to spend a valuable mid-round pick on a guy with a low ceiling simply b/c he plays a position of need.

Like I said, watch his game tape of the LSU game.

[Deputy Nutz]

The complaints that I have with Biegel are what is apparent in this film. He would have been a first rounder if he finished plays. He takes good angles on the backside and holds contain when he is on playside. He was the ground a bit much throughout the game. He was double teamed a handful of times, it was obvious that LSU was chipping him with backs and tight ends.

My feeling is that he holds value with the fourth pick. I used to be like a lot of you and thought I knew the draft and value of the players because I read websites and read draft magazines and complained at all the moves that didn't happen that I thought should have happened. These GM's hit record on the draft isn't real good and this is what they do for a living, Most likely this pick doesn't work out and other 4th rounders won't either. Some will and some of you will point to those successful fourth round picks and cry foul because you thought the Packers should have drafted that particular player. What ever helps you get through your lives.

[pbmax]

Well look at it this way. He isn't going to get chipped or double teamed this year.

We'll see.

[King Friday]

I cant post the video of Beigel in the LSU game as I'm on my phone, but go on YouTube and watch the tape... he doesn't make a single play of his own inertia. The couple of plays he does make are b/c he's unblocked.

He gets handled easily by the TE, he can't get off blocks, he lacks chase speed, on and on... watch the tape.

You must be blind, wist. He blew up a critical 3rd and 1 play all by himself, and LSU had a blocker assigned to him. Biegel was fast enough to beat the blocker to the spot.

I don't think this kid in any way is our knight in shining armor at LB, but he's not a bad value in round 4. I do agree that Thompson needs to alter his approach to this position...it hasn't gotten him anywhere in 15 years.

[SMBASS]

I stole this find from another site and thought it was pretty interesting:

Since 2005, in the first four rounds of the draft, there have only been nine college pass-rushers who have:

posted at least a 4.67-second 40-yard dash time
were at least 245 pounds or heavier
posted at least a 6.92-second three-cone time
Here are those players:

Von Miller, second pick in 2011 draft
Vic Beasley, eighth pick in 2015 draft
Anthony Barr, ninth pick in 2014 draft
DeMarcus Ware, 11th pick in 2005 draft
Bruce Irvin, 15th pick in 2012 draft
Connor Barwin, 46th pick in 2009 draft
Cliff Avril, 92nd pick in 2008 draft
Zak DeOssie, 116th pick in 2007 draft

Vince Biegel is the 9th

Author of the article (Justin Mosquera) has written for years on edge rushing prospects.

I still wish we would have signed Conner Barwin in free agency this year. Oh well...

[wist43]

You must be blind, wist. He blew up a critical 3rd and 1 play all by himself, and LSU had a blocker assigned to him. Biegel was fast enough to beat the blocker to the spot.

I don't think this kid in any way is our knight in shining armor at LB, but he's not a bad value in round 4. I do agree that Thompson needs to alter his approach to this position...it hasn't gotten him anywhere in 15 years.

Which play are you talking about?? Where he dove in and got the guy by the ankle?? I remember that one; and, I remember he actually had a sack in that game when he came in unblocked, overran the QB, the QB stepped up in the pocket but didn't get rid of the ball and Beigel was able to get him from behind.

Where on tape are talking about??

Overall, that video is not a pretty sight for Beigel. He simply is not an explosive athlete, not 'sudden, quick twitch... there's nothing about him that says he has a ceiling above anything more than a decent backup and special teams player.

I would be looking to grab those types of guys out of the ranks of undrafted FA's, and focus my draft picks on trying to procure guys that can be starters or have upside to be starters.

[Fritz]

The way he played, he looked like a Green Bay Packer edge rusher to me - a dollar short and a day late.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The way he played, he looked like a Green Bay Packer edge rusher to me - a dollar short and a day late.

Don't under estimate the value of team chemistry.

[3irty1]

I'm excited to see what Biegel can do in the NFL. This talk of his supposed low-ceiling makes no sense. This man's an NFL athlete:

6'03"
246 lbs
forty-yard dash: 4.67
three-cone: 6.92
20-yard SS: 4.30 (combine) 4.15 (proday)
Bench Press: 21 reps
Vert jump: 33.5 inches
Broad jump: 9' 10"

He moves like Haha Clinton-Dix but carries 30 extra pounds. This is a size-speed prospect. What Watt has over him (other than name) is his jumps and age. TJ's vert and broad jump are spectacular for his size, he's got the explosive ability to be as good as he wants rushing the passer. Biegel is unlikely to become the double digit sack monster that TJ could be but he's not some try-hard tweener either. He's got the attitude and the athletic traits of a difference maker from sideline to sideline and in coverage.

[gbgary]

I stole this find from another site and thought it was pretty interesting:

Since 2005, in the first four rounds of the draft, there have only been nine college pass-rushers who have:

posted at least a 4.67-second 40-yard dash time
were at least 245 pounds or heavier
posted at least a 6.92-second three-cone time
Here are those players:

Von Miller, second pick in 2011 draft
Vic Beasley, eighth pick in 2015 draft
Anthony Barr, ninth pick in 2014 draft
DeMarcus Ware, 11th pick in 2005 draft
Bruce Irvin, 15th pick in 2012 draft
Connor Barwin, 46th pick in 2009 draft
Cliff Avril, 92nd pick in 2008 draft
Zak DeOssie, 116th pick in 2007 draft

Vince Biegel is the 9th

Author of the article (Justin Mosquera) has written for years on edge rushing prospects.

I still wish we would have signed Conner Barwin in free agency this year. Oh well...

that's impressive. i seldom watch college football but he seems pretty good to me.

[bobblehead]

I'll repeat what I said before. If TJ Watt had the last name of Biegel, he and Vince would have been drafted within a round of each other. The difference being the ages of the two players.

I don't know. I knew Rocky Beigel....he is a big name in wisconsin sports around my era