Official Fire Dom Capers Thread

[texaspackerbacker]

I say AGAIN, it would be idiotic to get rid of Capers. You guys who hate him so much, who or more importantly, what kind of D Coordinator do you guys want? And how do you think any kind of more conventional defense would do with the fairly mediocre personnel the Packers have and the unlikelihood that Ted will improve it significantly?

[Bossman641]

I say AGAIN, it would be idiotic to get rid of Capers. You guys who hate him so much, who or more importantly, what kind of D Coordinator do you guys want? And how do you think any kind of more conventional defense would do with the fairly mediocre personnel the Packers have and the unlikelihood that Ted will improve it significantly?

I'm not saying it's 100% capers, but tt will be around until he chooses to retire. We don't have any studs on d but I'm of the opinion that the d is playing below the talent of the individuals. Combine that with the continued miscommunication and inability to defend the middle of the field, and its time for a change.

[Rutnstrut]

I say AGAIN, it would be idiotic to get rid of Capers. You guys who hate him so much, who or more importantly, what kind of D Coordinator do you guys want? And how do you think any kind of more conventional defense would do with the fairly mediocre personnel the Packers have and the unlikelihood that Ted will improve it significantly?

TT isn't giving Capers the talent he needs to do it his way. Capers isn't smart enough or good enough to work with what he gets. TT is going nowhere, it makes sense that Capers should be the one to go. But it will not happen. Stubby would have to fire him. There is no one in the NFL that likes throwing shit at the wall until something eventually sticks like stubby does.

[Bretsky]

More I think about pass rush the more it’s clear that the failure of personnel is not on D line but OLB.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

[call_me_ishmael]

Remember when everybody thought the DB coach was a stud? I am sort of wondering if he just got really lucky with Shields and UDFA Terrell Williams being a stud to pair up with Woodson. He hasn't really seemed to develop anyone else.

Same goes with ILB and OLB. We've played musical chairs there a lot over the years and nobody has really done much of anything.

The Packers haven't had a stud defender in many years, since the days of Chuck, Young Clay and Nick Collins. It really makes you wonder. Is Ted just unquestionably the worst defensive drafter in the NFL, or are the players not being put in positions to succeed? We've seen two DBs leave and have levels of success greatly beyond what they accomplished here. I can't really think of any other players who have left and excelled though.

[mraynrand]

Ted should probably never have been hired, in hindsight. He took the Ron Wolf draft and develop idea (which is a shaky philosophy to begin with) to more of an extreme than Wolf. He got a rep as a good GM because Aaron Rodgers was (hopefully still is) so damn good that the mediocrity of the team otherwise was not obvious. Thompson supporters may not like reading that, but it's true - damn true.

As usual, it's only partly true. Rodgers is great because of Rodgers and because of Stubby'd development. Name the other successful Tedford QBs. How did their coaches change their mechanics and put them in an explosive offense tuned to their talents? Ignoring the team building that led to 2010 is totally myopic. Matthews and Raji were essential draft picks and Pickett and Woodson were absolutely essential FA picks. Collins came into his own that year, and Shields bailed out the back end. That was a #2 defense, largely because the great pieces TT accumulated were all healthy. On offense, the line was great, the receivers were at or close to their peak, and the running backs were good enough. Look at how Stubby got production out of Starks and Jackson. Even missing TT's great TE pick, they were almost unstoppable. But things fell apart, and it took until 2014 to reassemble a very solid defense. If Bostick had done his job, we likely have another trophy.

It's astonishing how well the team is constructed, considering where they routinely pick. As long as Stub by is here, it will be a team centered around the offense, just as MN will be centered on the defense. Right now Packers need 1 or 2 exceptional players and they'll need to get that by picking higher in the draft and/or a FA acquisition.

[mraynrand]

TT isn't giving Capers the talent he needs to do it his way. Capers isn't smart enough or good enough to work with what he gets.

Hmm...

[mraynrand]

Absolutely. Watch the 'queens. There isn't anything complex about what they do, it starts with line play.

There's at least some truth here. Line play and pressure from the D-line (4-3) and OLBs (3-4) matters. Vikings, for whatever reason, picked better defensive line players than the Packers. Griffen in the 4th, Joseph, 2nd, Hunter 3rd. At LB Kendricks in a 2, Barr a 1 (No. 9 overall),
But in the secondary Rhodes, Waynes, and Harrison are all #1 picks and none of them are hurt I believe. Vikings have invested heavily in the draft on the LBs and the back end. The Line, not as much. But they've done well there.

The defense looks better in MN because of better and higher picks, coaches/coaching focus, and health.

[pbmax]

Me either. I no longer see hope for improvement as long as he's the DC. I have a sense there will be a change this year. Reading between the lines, I sense less support from MM for the defense in his press conferences.

He said too many mistakes. So he is seeing what everyone else is seeing. I think there is a fundamental mismatch between draft and develop and Capers system. But its still not been resolved 8 years in.

These guys, despite public proclamations of fan experts, are not idiots. They have tried to make it palatable to the young ones. But it ain't working.

Someone mentioned Whitt as someone who has looked both like a genius for developing players and terrible at getting them to coordinate back there. But Whitt doesn't get to choose the scheme or the adjustments. I suspect he can still develop a corner (King was playing fine for a rookie with a bum shoulder) but cannot remove the fundamental complexity of Capers multiple coverages behind his multiple attempts to generate a pass rush.

The weird thing is that a new guy would inherit a D that will have a lot of young vets starting next year. They have drafted a lot of defenders high recently.

[pbmax]

Capers would not have had some of the backend problems this year with a pass rush. Dix plays closer to the LOS and has to devote less time to helping CBs.

Capers had to abandon his pressure (which causes the backend complexity at times) when his injured CBs/replacements were getting beat deep. I don't know how you square this circle this year.

Capers might get fired for the mistakes and the complexity that made them more numerous. But don't forget that rookies make mistakes in coverages (Jones allowing that TD down the seam route was a colossal mistake in simple recognition about how many receivers were on which side of the field).

But Ted owes Capers more pass rush. Fackrell and Elliot failed to develop. You don't end up in the bottom third of the League with a veteran coach and staff unless there are personnel problems.

[mraynrand]

Biegel and Fackrell were supposed to replace a declining Peppers. Perry was supposed to play. Lowry and Clark were supposed to have breakout years.

Nada.

[pbmax]

Biegel and Fackrell were supposed to replace a declining Peppers. Perry was supposed to play. Lowry and Clark were supposed to have breakout years.

Nada.

From a pass rushing standpoint yes. But Clark and Lowry were good at their main job, holding the point of attack. Like I said last week I think, you stick one disruptive guy on that pass rush and the other three, whoever they are, are good enough to be close enough to seal the deal.

But that guy has to be as nuts as Matthews was in his first three years.

[MadScientist]

I say AGAIN, it would be idiotic to get rid of Capers. You guys who hate him so much, who or more importantly, what kind of D Coordinator do you guys want? And how do you think any kind of more conventional defense would do with the fairly mediocre personnel the Packers have and the unlikelihood that Ted will improve it significantly?

Go back to the Detroit game and read what Stafford said after the game. He knew from the looks he got exactly what blitzes the Packers were doing. Capers system has been beaten. So what kind of D-coord do I want? I want one who's system hasn't been beaten, where opposing QB's don't know just what we are doing.

[pbmax]

Go back to the Detroit game and read what Stafford said after the game. He knew from the looks he got exactly what blitzes the Packers were doing. Capers system has been beaten. So what kind of D-coord do I want? I want one who's system hasn't been beaten, where opposing QB's don't know just what we are doing.

I don't think that is that unusual for a veteran QB to know a 30 year coordinators basic looks (he looks at their film twice a year minimum). If he didn't Stafford should be fired. Rodgers knows what he is getting all the time and it doesn't just happen to ex-Steeler coordinators.

The problem is that the pressure only works if its a surprise. That is a personnel issue.

[mraynrand]

Go back to the Detroit game and read what Stafford said after the game. He knew from the looks he got exactly what blitzes the Packers were doing. Capers system has been beaten. So what kind of D-coord do I want? I want one who's system hasn't been beaten, where opposing QB's don't know just what we are doing.

Did you hear what Rodgers said about Carolina? He was hoping they'd blitz. Maybe it's because he and other QBs know how to beat all sorts of blitzes and are surprised by very little they see. Seems like more a veteran quality than due to a 'stale' defense. I find it hard to believe that there are defensive innovations that are so stunningly amazing that veteran QBs and offenses can't reasonably dissect them. Even if there are (say maybe Zimmer's) you need capable pros to run them. Seems like that's where the rubber meets the road for the Packers defense - personnel.