Official Fire Dom Capers Thread

[pbmax]

Question: What is the best you could expect of this defense as is with the most competent coaching in the League?

1. Best two corners are out
2. Rookie playing safety
3. No pass rush
4. Safeties playing corners getting beat deep, necessitating deep help.

ishmael's link to Fennell's stats is disturbing in the extreme. Worse that some of those same stats in 2013. However, the Packers D are still 21st in points allowed.

The confusion in the backfield is maddening. But I think its different this year (Randall making mistakes in slot and now Jones making mistakes in slot) than in the past when even vets got it wrong.

But if you sub out the entire staff and don't let M3 dictate the philosophy, what is the best you think this defense is capable of now?

[texaspackerbacker]

So when should they have fired Thompson and McCarthy, 2011?

Ted should probably never have been hired, in hindsight. He took the Ron Wolf draft and develop idea (which is a shaky philosophy to begin with) to more of an extreme than Wolf. He got a rep as a good GM because Aaron Rodgers was (hopefully still is) so damn good that the mediocrity of the team otherwise was not obvious. Thompson supporters may not like reading that, but it's true - damn true.

I dread the idea of Elliott Wolf as the next GM, since he probably is a disciple of Ted and Ron. The only hope is that several former Packer personnel people snapped out of it when they went elsewhere.

Draft and develop isn't bad if you are great at drafting. You could say Ted has just been unlucky - ever since drafting Rodgers and maybe Matthews, but that many years of bad luck, he must have broken several mirrors. And supplementing deficiencies with free agent pickups? Unthinkable, and the very very few exceptions have been crap most of the time - since Woodson, maybe - and even he was thought by most to be over the hill when we got him.

McCarthy is an ok coach. Playing not to lose/being too cautious generally wins games if you have a good team. The most annoying thing about him IMO is failing to develop young talent - often letting it sit on the bench damn near forever. Would we have even seen Aaron Jones, for example, if injuries hadn't forced it? There's a guy I'd like to see at Corner, Donatello Brown, who hasn't even smelled game action - while the players we have in there flounder.

[call_me_ishmael]

My gut feeling is the defense is just too complicated. It's crazy that at the end of the year, rookies still cannot contribute. These people have been playing football their entire lives. How hard could it really be?

I recall that Gus Bradley and his successor preached and valued simplicity of scheme over everything else so that players can just play fast. That does seem to be the way to go forward here.

If there is anything that annoys me about the Packers D, and there isn't much, it's that we hear year after year how the young folks cannot thrive it in and need to be coached up quite a bit. That is a smell that it's too complicated to me.

[texaspackerbacker]

Simplicity is a luxury you can only afford if you have superior talent. We don't.

[ZachMN]

So when should they have fired Thompson and McCarthy, 2011?

After the choke job in Seattle for M3 for sure. Thompson '15. How's that?

[ZachMN]

My gut feeling is the defense is just too complicated. It's crazy that at the end of the year, rookies still cannot contribute. These people have been playing football their entire lives. How hard could it really be?

I recall that Gus Bradley and his successor preached and valued simplicity of scheme over everything else so that players can just play fast. That does seem to be the way to go forward here.

If there is anything that annoys me about the Packers D, and there isn't much, it's that we hear year after year how the young folks cannot thrive it in and need to be coached up quite a bit. That is a smell that it's too complicated to me.

Absolutely. Watch the 'queens. There isn't anything complex about what they do, it starts with line play.

[ZachMN]

Simplicity is a luxury you can only afford if you have superior talent. We don't.

But you can't quantify that well enough for the philistines here. It's not enough to watch them play and say they pass the eye test or not around here otherwise your opinion is invalidated. Bring some spreadsheets!!

[pbmax]

After the choke job in Seattle for M3 for sure. Thompson '15. How's that?

So substitute embarrassing loss with a spectacular player failure for lack of championships as the criteria? So if Bostick blocks rather than jumps, McCarthy is a better coach?

This criteria is only one step better than CHAMPIONSHIPS! because it actually considers coaching as a factor in players contributing to defeat.

[pbmax]

Absolutely. Watch the 'queens. There isn't anything complex about what they do, it starts with line play.

The Vikings play some of the best disguised coverages in the League. Rodgers has spoken about this at length as a feature of Zimmer as their coach (Bengals DC and Vikes HC).

[Teamcheez1]

The Vikings play some of the best disguised coverages in the League. Rodgers has spoken about this at length as a feature of Zimmer as their coach (Bengals DC and Vikes HC).

Capers does the same. He disguises the defense to actually make the offense think we're going to cover and tackle them.

[pbmax]

Capers does the same. He disguises the defense to actually make the offense think we're going to cover and tackle them.

No one knows what they'll do. Not even the DBs.

[call_me_ishmael]

Simplicity is a luxury you can only afford if you have superior talent. We don't.

Well if our slow and un-athletic players cannot play fast in Capers system due to thinking, wouldn't be it be beneficial to maximize their talents by keeping this simple and enabling them to play at top speed? At least then they have a punchers chance at beating the opposition to the spot, lol!

[texaspackerbacker]

Well if our slow and un-athletic players cannot play fast in Capers system due to thinking, wouldn't be it be beneficial to maximize their talents by keeping this simple and enabling them to play at top speed? At least then they have a punchers chance at beating the opposition to the spot, lol!

No no no. We have to send a gang of people to rush the QB like Khalid Mack or a few others do individually, but when we send that gang, we leave other things open - but we have to do it or else almost any QB can pick us apart. Having a shut down Corner would make the guessing game we need to play less dangerous ...... but we don't have one. That's why losing Shields hurt so much.

It seems like a lot of games, the Packers D plays it simple on the first series - and what happens? We have given up more points I think than any other team on the first series. Then the scheming kicks in, and things get better. But later in the game, sharp Offensive Coordinators adapt too. It ain't that Capers is outsmarted - IMO, just that he has limited talent to work with.

[Bossman641]

Please get rid of capers. I can't take another year.

[Joemailman]

Please get rid of capers. I can't take another year.

Me either. I no longer see hope for improvement as long as he's the DC. I have a sense there will be a change this year. Reading between the lines, I sense less support from MM for the defense in his press conferences.