IS IT TIME TO PUT UNTOUCHABLE TED ON TRIAL ? HOW DO YOU GRADE HIM ??

[Pugger]

In 2011, when Manning went down for the Colts, and they went 2-14, they had the following Pro Bowlers on their team:


Reggie Wayne
Jeff Saturday
Dallas Clark
Joseph Addai
Dwight Freeney
Robert Mathis
Antoine Bethea
Adam Vinatieri
Pat McAfree
Kerry Collins

They also had:
Pierre Garcon

Those guys were worth two wins. But they won some popularity contests.

This shows ya why a good QB is essential in this league if you want to win. Having a decent defense is essential once you get to the playoffs and this is why we've been coming up short since 2010.

[pbmax]

You don't agree 'AT ALL" about pro bowlers and all pros? What does that even mean? Wouldn't you want a handful of pro bowlers as opposed to zero? Or maybe get a 1st or 2nd team all pro more than once every 5 years aside from Aaron? You guys have twisted the argument so much, that pointing out a lack of star players is somehow an irrelevant point.

I see signs from some of the young guys, but not enough consistency to feel assured they can be pieces to truly build around.

Don't agree that pro bowls or all pro designations serve as any kind of useful yardstick for the quality of your roster.

[pbmax]

I think next year we’ll be saying the same about Clark and Williams.

And Randall (/ducks)

I am with you all the way on this one. Jones too.

[pbmax]

I love this thread.

Welcome back PackerRats. Maybe we need two years of disappointing football to fully revive the board.

[Smidgeon]

I love this thread.

Welcome back PackerRats. Maybe we need two years of disappointing football to fully revive the board.

Me too. Good, spirited discussion.

[Bretsky]

I love this thread.

Welcome back PackerRats. Maybe we need two years of disappointing football to fully revive the board.

My threads are meant to foster spirited fights..........lol..obviously I fail with most of them

[call_me_ishmael]

Was Lawrence Guy a bad pick? Was Franklin? Was Terrance Murphy? Brad Jones made 36 starts for the Packers. Was he a good pick?

How many starts does a player have to make to be considered a good pick and over how many years does he have to make those starts? Do they have to be starts for the Packers?

If a team drafts 1 slot after the Packers and gets 5 career long starters, and the Packers get 3 starters from the same draft who only start 1 season each, is that a good or bad draft?

Do you include UDFA in your analysis?

No UDFA. Again, I did this for me. If you want to do that analysis, feel free. I don't have time for that stuff. It's funny, I see some criticism from people over the work I've done, but they've done nothing at all!

Were Franklin, Murphy, etc bad picks? I dunno, that's a matter of perspective. The end result is yes but should TT be held accountable for it? Probably not.

Jones bad pick? No he's a fine pick for a 7th rounder he overachieved but he was still a bad starter. I don't get what is so hard about this. The metric is 3 good starters in a draft. If he isn't a good starter, he is either an average starter or a bad starter. I feel like you're overthinking this. It's really quite simple. Good pick that contributed, but bad starter we all hated.

Other team: Irrelevant to discussion, the stated goal for Packers under Ron Wolfe was 3 solid starters to be a good draft. No other teams are considered for the criteria nor should they be.

If you get an average starter out the 7th round or something, that's a great pick. If you get a couple years of below average starting out of a 7th rounder, I'd argue that's still a pretty darn good pick. This is why I didn't rate individual picks or even players beyond how a player is generally viewed (good, solid, average, bad, etc) and used that determination + second contract as starter to form the grades.

[Smidgeon]

I just want to point out the Seahawks missed the playoffs even with their star QB all year. For all of the teeth-gnashers out there about the state of the team, it's a testament to TT that they remain good even with their QB. This league is more than just a one person show. Rodgers couldn't do it without other pieces too.

[red]

Ted Thompson died 5 years ago in a car crash

A local Green Bay scientists told the team he could re animate him and that the man could continue to serve his duties

He is stuck saying just simple words, that’s why we have so many guys named Adams, or jones, or dix or king. Sometimes he is able to mumble odd sounds out, that is how we ended up with fackerall

[woodbuck27]

Was Lawrence Guy a bad pick? Was Franklin? Was Terrance Murphy? Brad Jones made 36 starts for the Packers. Was he a good pick?

How many starts does a player have to make to be considered a good pick and over how many years does he have to make those starts? Do they have to be starts for the Packers?

If a team drafts 1 slot after the Packers and gets 5 career long starters, and the Packers get 3 starters from the same draft who only start 1 season each, is that a good or bad draft?

Do you include UDFA in your analysis?

Good Draft Picks make or are close to making Pro Bowls.

[yetisnowman]

In 2011, when Manning went down for the Colts, and they went 2-14, they had the following Pro Bowlers on their team:


Reggie Wayne
Jeff Saturday
Dallas Clark
Joseph Addai
Dwight Freeney
Robert Mathis
Antoine Bethea
Adam Vinatieri
Pat McAfree
Kerry Collins

They also had:
Pierre Garcon

Those guys were worth two wins. But they won some popularity contests.

So we are factoring in former pro bowlers as it pertains to a current teams success? Wayne, Mathis, Freeney were the only relevant current pro bowl players on the team at the time. Pretty ridiculous argument. Not to mention using the fg kicker, punter, and backup qb to make your point.

I mean the Seahawks had pro bowlers Wilson, Lacy, Graham, Baldwin, and Lockett on the same offfense this year and were still below average on that side of the ball. Clearly having pro bowl caliber players means nothing and is a poor way to gauge a GM.

Since it is such a useless metric in evaluating team building, shouldn't you be able to find a successful team in recent memory that has had 1 or fewer pro bowlers?

Lets look at the conference champs since the Packers won the super bowl and how many pro bowlers they had on their roster.

2017-Falcons 6
Patriots 4
2016-Panthers 10
Broncos 4
2015-Seahawks 6
Patriots 5
2014-Seahawks 5
Broncos 5
2013-49ers 8
Ravens 6
2012-Giants 3
Patriots 8
2011-Packers 6
Steelers 4

Its weird that the teams with the most "popular" players seem to contend for championships.

[call_me_ishmael]

The scope is this question is the past 5 years. What great player has he acquired in the past 5 years? David Bahktiari. That's it.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2017/12/22/dougherty-vikings-getting-better-packers-draft/977791001/

Grading scale:
3 starters, 2 good, 1 average/bad = A (4.0)
3 starters, 1 good, 2 average/bad = B (3.0)
2 starters, 1 good, 1 average/bad = C (2.0)
2 starters, 2 average/bad = D (1.0)
1 starter, 1 good = D (0.0)
1 or less starter, bad = F


2012 - Two second contracts as starter, one good, one average. Draft grade is C due to 2 starters where only is a good player.
Perry - average
Worthy - bad
Hayward - average, gone
Daniels - good
McMillion - bad
Manning - bad
Datko - bad
Coleman - bad

2013 - One second contact as starter, 1 special, no one else note worthy. Draft grade is D due to one starter, albeit the Packers second best player at a key position.
Datone Jones - bad, gone
Eddie Lacy - average, gone
Bakhtiari - special
Tretter - below average, gone
Franklin - bad, gone
Hyde - average, gone
Boyd - bad
Palmer - bad
Johnson - bad
Dorsey - bad
Barrington - bad

2014 - Three (presumably) second contracts as starters, Two good players, one average player. Draft grade is A
Dix - good (historically, down year)
Adams - good
Thorton - bad
Rodgers - below average
Bradford - bad
Linsley - average
Abbrederis - bad
Goodson - bad
Janis - average

Projecting 2015 - Presumably 2-3 second contracts as starter though one is a fullback. Two average players, other show potential but are constantly hurt. Draft grade is C at best. Randall is an average #1 at best (that's being generous). Ripkowski is an average fullback (irrelevant). Ryan is nothing special. Rollins and Monty have potential but are always hurt.
Randall - average
Rollins - bad (so far)
Montgomery - bad (so far)
Ryan - below average
Hundley - average
Ripkowski - average
Ringo - bad
Backman - bad

Projecting 2016 - Presumably 3 starters signed to second contracts as starters. Clark is looking pretty darn good. Martinez and Lowry are average starters at their positions. Draft grade is an B
Clark - good
Spriggs - bad
Fackrell - bad
Martinez - average
Lowry - average
Davis - bad
Murphy - bad

Projecting 2017 - Jury is still out but there is no reason to suspect a star out of this class. There is a lot of starting potential here but we'll see. The jury is still out.
King - good (give him benefit of doubt)
Jones - bad so far, incomplete
Adams - incomplete
Biegel - incomplete
Williams - average
Jones - average
Amichia - bad
Mays - bad


Summary:
GPA - ~2.4 on average

Based on my scale and some basic math, TT's GPA is 2.4 over the past 5 years. That's not very good. It's time to make a change here. Part of it is since 2012 so many of his draftees have been very injury prone. They have the medical info ahead of time so perhaps they're taking too many risks there.

His best draft by far is 2014 with two above average starters and one average one. His worst year was 2013 where there is not a single player still on the squad aside from the excellent Bakhtiari.

2015 has Ty Montgomery remaining on the roster. 2016 looking okay I guess. Too soon to tell with 2017. I know hindsight is 20/20 but I think when comparing talent it was obvious how much better Carl Lawson is/was then Vin Biegel. What was TT thinking?

[Harlan Huckleby]

witch hunt!

[smuggler]

Tretter and Franklin were bad? Tretter is a good center and Franklin broke his neck!

[call_me_ishmael]

Tretter and Franklin were bad? Tretter is a good center and Franklin broke his neck!

Tretter didn't earn a second contract here since he was always hurt and Franklin was a wasted pick in the end. The outcomes for those two were poor.