Packers To Hire Pettine As DC

[pbmax]

Looks like there’s a pattern. Players not schemes. The best schemes are done in by pedestrian players.

Always true. But Fangio has explicitly modified his scheme to adapt to younger players and simplicity. Pettine has worked with a lot of good vets.

[Bretsky]

Always true. But Fangio has explicitly modified his scheme to adapt to younger players and simplicity. Pettine has worked with a lot of good vets.

My order of preference would have been

Fangio
Bradley
Pettine


But Wist gave his blessing, and if it gets him to shut up our DC I'm game.....hahaha


All 3 IMO were clearly better than hiring from within

[woodbuck27]

As a rookie I'm good with that, pbmax. And I guess the hind tit will just have to do.

Writing the word tit will lure Patler back Pronto.

We all know now that he's just not a football expert.

[Joemailman]

A lot of people have questioned whether Clay Matthews is worth keeping around at his salary. A case for keeping him with Pettine coming in.

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018...thews-in-2018/

Pettine likes to play multiple fronts, with disguised blitzes and coverages. It’s a scheme that could help revitalize Matthews’ ability to disrupt, possibly even as a pass-rusher.

Former NFL safety Jim Leonhard recently described Pettine’s defense as flexible and creative. That sounds exactly like what Matthews needs. He needs a playcaller capable of finding the right matchups and creating the right situations for playmakers to take advantage. The days of Matthews lining up every down on the edge and beating left and right tackles all afternoon are gone. Get him moving around and good things happen. Pettine will find ways. It’ll be one of his top priorities.

Ideally, the Packers would love for Pettine to find Matthews the perfect new role and inject some life into his game, all while grooming a young rookie – presumably a top pick – to be the defense’s next true difference maker.

Clearing a big chunk of cap space is a tempting scenario, but the Packers will be better off in 2018 with Matthews on the roster.

[mraynrand]

Maybe Petite can revive the "W" position for Matthews. Maybe. But the above reminds me that Jim Leonhard learned at the feet of the master.

[pbmax]

A lot of people have questioned whether Clay Matthews is worth keeping around at his salary. A case for keeping him with Pettine coming in.

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018...thews-in-2018/

The days of Matthews lining up every down on the edge and beating left and right tackles all afternoon are gone. Get him moving around and good things happen. Pettine will find ways. It’ll be one of his top priorities.

He has been doing this for a while. He has spent a good deal of time at ILB on run downs in nickel and rushing from the interior on pass downs.

There are many ways to do this but I don't think, other than surprise until its on film, will this revitalize his career. The problem is that unless Perry is healthy, CMIII is still their best playmaker in the front seven. And best pass rusher.

[Joemailman]

He has been doing this for a while. He has spent a good deal of time at ILB on run downs in nickel and rushing from the interior on pass downs.

There are many ways to do this but I don't think, other than surprise until its on film, will this revitalize his career. The problem is that unless Perry is healthy, CMIII is still their best playmaker in the front seven. And best pass rusher.

One of Pettine's strengths is supposed to be using multiple fronts and disguising coverages. I had the sense this past year that the Packers under Capers were doing a poor job of disguising things. Seemed like teams kind of knew what was coming. An example was the devastating effectiveness of screen passes against the Packers defense. Screen passes should only work that well against certain defensive calls.

[pbmax]

One of Pettine's strengths is supposed to be using multiple fronts and disguising coverages. I had the sense this past year that the Packers under Capers were doing a poor job of disguising things. Seemed like teams kind of knew what was coming. An example was the devastating effectiveness of screen passes against the Packers defense. Screen passes should only work that well against certain defensive calls.

Screen passes work well against blitzes and man coverage with deep safeties.

It also helps if one box safety is banged up (Burnett) and the other is a rookie (jones).

[gbgary]

swapping one complex system for another...



pre free-agency/draft prediction for 2018... ummmm...8-8

[texaspackerbacker]

Swapping one complex system for another is about the best we can hope for. Pettine sounds like he's a lot like Capers. That's exactly what maximizes any defense, and it's exactly what a team with mediocre personnel needs to present an adequate NFL defense.

[3irty1]

Swapping one complex system for another is about the best we can hope for. Pettine sounds like he's a lot like Capers. That's exactly what maximizes any defense, and it's exactly what a team with mediocre personnel needs to present an adequate NFL defense.

Doesn't it concern you that everywhere Capers has ever coached his defenses have had a steady downward trajectory? Dom's only success has been as a reboot artist. The JJ Abrams of defense.

Tell me what you think of this theory. What if Capers is a mad scientist when it comes to X's and O's and a genius at innovating new defenses out of leftovers, but terrible at projecting talent into his schemes. Dom lands in a place with players from the last regime, builds a winner immediately, then gets worse and worse the longer his influence exists. What if Ted is giving him everything he's asking for but he was asking for the wrong things? This could explain why guys like Casey Hayward and Micah Hyde immediately turn to studs when they leave Dom. Contrast this with McCarthy who seems to have a very good sense of what matters most to him at each position and overall did a great job working in harmony with Ted to get those players. Its clear that the coaches are a big part of the scouting process by the insights they share in the post draft interviews they give.

Pettine hasn't been anywhere long enough to gauge whether or not his defenses reliably trend downward but fingers crossed.

[mraynrand]

Couple of problems with your Capers assessment 31. It's just as easy to say that he did well when Thompson brought in talented experience. Did well with Woodson and Pickett right off the bat and last good year was 2012. Revived when brought in Peppers and had experienced groups in 2014 and 2015.

Hayward was good right off the bat with 6 INTs in 2012 and 3 INTs in 2014 - you can't say Capers wasn't capable of getting a lot out of him. Injuries, not Capers ended his stay in GB

Same With Hyde. But Hyde still is more limited - recall the dropped game winner against SF.

Capers was an above average DC who needed talented and mostly experienced groups, but he did well with teachable youth so long as a structure was there. I think he was ranked 7 and 2 in his first two seasons because the talent was there - Wood, Pickett, #1 picks Clay and Raji and a total gems Williams, Shields, and Collins in 2010 made him look great. Losing Collins killed him for two years and losing Shields killed him last year. I think he was pretty much a top 1/3 DC. Not great, but good.

[3irty1]

Couple of problems with your Capers assessment 31. It's just as easy to say that he did well when Thompson brought in talented experience. Did well with Woodson and Pickett right off the bat and last good year was 2012. Revived when brought in Peppers and had experienced groups in 2014 and 2015.

Hayward was good right off the bat with 6 INTs in 2012 and 3 INTs in 2014 - you can't say Capers wasn't capable of getting a lot out of him. Injuries, not Capers ended his stay in GB

Same With Hyde. But Hyde still is more limited - recall the dropped game winner against SF.

Capers was an above average DC who needed talented and mostly experienced groups, but he did well with teachable youth so long as a structure was there. I think he was ranked 7 and 2 in his first two seasons because the talent was there - Wood, Pickett, #1 picks Clay and Raji and a total gems Williams, Shields, and Collins in 2010 made him look great. Losing Collins killed him for two years and losing Shields killed him last year. I think he was pretty much a top 1/3 DC. Not great, but good.

The fact remains that Dom was still a reboot artist elsewhere. And coming in as a new DC is not exactly a stacked deck. You're walking into a situation that got the last DC fired albeit probably aided by a high draft class. I think the "Dom's defenses need experience" idea is a bit overplayed. At some point if your scheme needs experience from people who've been playing football their whole lives its just a bad scheme. Plus Matthews and Shields came online and weren't even experienced by college standards and were immediate playmakers. Injuries are obviously central to the story of the Capers Packers. I can't think of a theory for why Capers defenses are more injury prone but I can theorize why his offseason input could make for a steady decline no matter where he coached. Also is there at all an equivalent to the TT/MM offensive lineman or WR? Even we as fans know the prototype there and they hit with near certainty even as midround picks. That's a type of talent that MM wants, TT could reliably find, and MM's staff could reliably coach into a solid NFL starter. We don't really seem to have anything like that on defense.

[mraynrand]

The fact remains that Dom was still a reboot artist elsewhere.

maybe he was just a better DC than what they had


And coming in as a new DC is not exactly a stacked deck. You're walking into a situation that got the last DC fired albeit probably aided by a high draft class.

OK. So Dom is better than the last guy and properly used Clay and Raji right away. He's a good coach


I think the "Dom's defenses need experience" idea is a bit overplayed.

So do I. That's why i said I thought he did well with youth if a structure is there. Maybe when Shields got hurt and Raji quit, the better solution was solid FA leadership though, rather than rely heavily on development of rookies.

At some point if your scheme needs experience from people who've been playing football their whole lives its just a bad scheme.
Not whole lives, just more than a couple of seasons maybe.

I can theorize why his offseason input could make for a steady decline no matter where he coached.
I disagree on the steady decline assessment. Dom was 7,2, gap 11 gap 12, 13 ranked. I see a guy mostly hovering around top 1/3.

Also is there at all an equivalent to the TT/MM offensive lineman or WR? Even we as fans know the prototype there and they hit with near certainty even as midround picks. That's a type of talent that MM wants, TT could reliably find, and MM's staff could reliably coach into a solid NFL starter. We don't really seem to have anything like that on defense.

I dunno, I see reasonable starters all over the defense: , Perry, Shields, Williams, Martinez. I guess I don't see the mid round guy who turned into a All pro studs, but Burnett Daniels and Hyde seemed like capable mid-rounders. Maybe not enough of them.

[call_me_ishmael]

Really good posts in here in the past couple pages. I still have mixed feelings on Pettine but I will choose to be optimistic and hopeful. Maybe it's a reflection of myself but I expect a better product on the field if only from hearing a different voice for a year.

The philosophy that I mostly closely align with personally is erroring towards a simpler scheme and maybe losing out to superior talent. I would rather my players play as fast as possible and to their greatest extent, even if it means they get beat by better players.