More Banjo: Week 9 @ New England

[Fritz]

This thread is a little depressing but spot on.

ARod has masked a bad team. It’s very hard to win without turnovers and scoring above 21 pts/game.

Time to move on fully from ted/mike.

In the past, I would get so angry because the Packers seemed to suffer way more injuries than other teams. However, this year they've been extraordinarily fortunate on the injury front - but their record is 3-4-1.

There's a talent problem, for one. Ted's last four or even five drafts produced some very good players, occasionally, but for the most part he whiffed. Looks like he whiffed on the entire 2015 draft. Looks like he whiffed on the second-rounder Spriggs. Whiffed on second-rounder Josh Jones. Whiffed on third-rounder Montravius Adams.

But now there seems to be a coaching problem. When the Packers ran the ball, they moved the ball - but, per usual, they got away from it and the offense stalled. Pettine is doing what he can, but he's got no one who can get to the passer, so it's all smoke and mirrors. He's mixing and matching and doing what he can, but this team ain't going anywhere based on defense. It would have to be the offense that carries this team, but the offense sputters and stalls more than my old 74 Vega.

Might as well hang on to MM for the moment. Start making "discreet inquiries" about the guys you're interested in at the end of the year. Does Gute even have a say, or is firing MM all on Murphy?

Speaking of Murphy, his record is starting to look smeared. He seems to have been not paying attention while Ted was slipping, and he's allowed WhineyMike a power structure that strips Gute of the authority he needs (in my opinion) to really turn this around. I think Murphy's been negligent.

So is he the guy who gets to/has to make the decision on MM, since Gute is not MM's boss? Is that how this wacky-ass thing is set up?

[Joemailman]

In the past, I would get so angry because the Packers seemed to suffer way more injuries than other teams. However, this year they've been extraordinarily fortunate on the injury front - but their record is 3-4-1.

There's a talent problem, for one. Ted's last four or even five drafts produced some very good players, occasionally, but for the most part he whiffed. Looks like he whiffed on the entire 2015 draft. Looks like he whiffed on the second-rounder Spriggs. Whiffed on second-rounder Josh Jones. Whiffed on third-rounder Montravius Adams.

But now there seems to be a coaching problem. When the Packers ran the ball, they moved the ball - but, per usual, they got away from it and the offense stalled. Pettine is doing what he can, but he's got no one who can get to the passer, so it's all smoke and mirrors. He's mixing and matching and doing what he can, but this team ain't going anywhere based on defense. It would have to be the offense that carries this team, but the offense sputters and stalls more than my old 74 Vega.

Might as well hang on to MM for the moment. Start making "discreet inquiries" about the guys you're interested in at the end of the year. Does Gute even have a say, or is firing MM all on Murphy?

Speaking of Murphy, his record is starting to look smeared. He seems to have been not paying attention while Ted was slipping, and he's allowed WhineyMike a power structure that strips Gute of the authority he needs (in my opinion) to really turn this around. I think Murphy's been negligent.

So is he the guy who gets to/has to make the decision on MM, since Gute is not MM's boss? Is that how this wacky-ass thing is set up?

I'm not so pessimistic about the power arrangement. Murphy has the final say on MM, but I don't think he will force MM on Gutey if Gutey has lost confidence in MM. I think they'll come to an agreement. Remember that Murphy only gave MM a 1 year extension. This is essentially a contract year for MM. He won't back next year as a lame-duck coach. He'll either get a longer extension or he'll be fired. So far he's done nothing to deserve an extension.

[call_me_ishmael]

I wonder what it would take to pry Shanahan Jr away from SF. Probably a pipe dream, but that dude can flat out coach.

[gbgary]

i don't think Rodgers is masking much. he's been as big a problem as anything else you can point to.

[Rutnstrut]

i don't think Rodgers is masking much. he's been as big a problem as anything else you can point to.

True, but he also has a coach that is undisciplined and not creative at all. AR needs a coach that will bring him fresh, new plays and will not be afraid to get in his face when he screws up. I think Rodgers is bored with the offense and has lost faith in it.

[texaspackerbacker]

I waded through 34 posts in this thread: panic, wrongheadedness sheeeesh!

Two weeks in a row now, we came damn close against arguably 2 of the 3 best teams in the league in road games. We shoulda won against the Rams, and if we hadn't gotten snake bit - AGAIN - with the Jones fumble, we woulda been in the drivers seat against the Patriots.

Should McCarthy get fired? Maybe. It's something to consider after the season, but I doubt it happens. I thought he called a better game than usual against New England - actually throwing it down the field a lot and mixing in runs with a good degree of success.

What a bunch of idiotic whiners in here regarding Aaron Rodgers. He clearly outplayed the other candidate for GOAT despite getting pressured horribly by the pass rush (at one point, the commentator said 46% of the time compared to just the one sack and nothing else close for Brady).

What is the real problem? Anybody in this forum knows in advance what I'm gonna say: personnel - our pathetic O Line was actually not as bad as usual, opening a few holes for RBs and once or twice actually giving Rodgers a decent pocket - the kind Brady gets virtually all the time. Just the same, the only way you could say our O Line did good would be extremely low expectations. THE MOST SIGNIFICANT POINT WAS THAT THE PATRIOTS GOT ALL THAT PRESSURE ON OUR QB WITH ONLY 4 PASS RUSHERS. The only way we ever got near Brady was with all out blitzes - which we SHOULD have done more often.

The patchwork D did a fairly decent job. Tramon was at least as good in coverage as Clinton-Dix and he stuck his nose in and made some nice tackles. Breeland was at least decent at Corner. The back up Safetys weren't horrible; Whitehead showed signs of being a quality player until the asshole ref kicked him out.

This is certainly not the time to panic and get stupid - as several people in this thread and the gameday thread seem to be doing.

[mraynrand]

While I agree that the desperation drafts of all defense lately have left the cupboard bare on offense, as noted somewhere above, the gameplan blows. Watch a saints game with all the screens and slants. See the way headcoaches are utilizing RBs out of the backfield and realize the game has passed fat Mike by.

I mostly agree, with more stress on the talent desert. I love how the Saints scheme so that Brees is just throwing super fast and on rhythm. Their whole offense is the Patriots' first drive.

[mraynrand]

This is certainly not the time to panic and get stupid - as several people in this thread and the gameday thread seem to be doing.

Nope. No need to panic. The result was exactly as I expected. But this team is what it is - about .500. They'll pick up more wins in the second half, and if some teams tank a little more than we expect, they might sneak into the payoffs. But the talent level is clearly second tier to about 5 teams.

[mraynrand]

Speaking strictly on offense. They lost Bulaga. Patriots were down a lineman at the start, which is a slight advantage in prep. Spriggs was not a tire fire.

The offense had the parts you wanted at the beginning of the season save the RT and I think he lasted most of a half. Rodgers was moving better than all season. Both backs available plus the receivers and Graham. Worst you can say about the rest of their health is that Cobb probably wasn't 100%.

I'll have to check the numbers, but this Pats D has struggled some this year and their pass rush has been mediocre. Playing at Foxboro is tough, but they have fought this before. Should have had more.

OK, on offense they are marginal at starting talent. Graham is missing one knee and he doesn't run all that well. I can only hope Cobb is hurt, but regardless, he's almost completely ineffective. They have some second-tier rookie talent, which would create real problems with good starters, but the Patsies were able to go and shut down exxon valdez and still blanket Adams. Rodgers won't throw to a covered Graham, and Cobb can't get open either. Even with extensive scheming, there's no guarantee these guys get free. Their only option is Rodgers putting the ball right into their hands. And that's If the blocking holds up, but WTH with Taylor crapping out when they are desperate? Oh well, it always looks the darkest after a road loss to 'Cheat.

[call_me_ishmael]

i don't think Rodgers is masking much. he's been as big a problem as anything else you can point to.

I agree with this.

[Joemailman]

OK, on offense they are marginal at starting talent. Graham is missing one knee and he doesn't run all that well. I can only hope Cobb is hurt, but regardless, he's almost completely ineffective. They have some second-tier rookie talent, which would create real problems with good starters, but the Patsies were able to go and shut down exxon valdez and still blanket Adams. Rodgers won't throw to a covered Graham, and Cobb can't get open either. Even with extensive scheming, there's no guarantee these guys get free. Their only option is Rodgers putting the ball right into their hands. And that's If the blocking holds up, but WTH with Taylor crapping out when they are desperate? Oh well, it always looks the darkest after a road loss to 'Cheat.

I don't think MVS is second-tier talent. He's on a pace for 700 yards receiving, which would be the most for a Packers rookie WR since Sterling Sharpe. But he is a rookie, so expecting him to be a consistent starter would be asking too much.
Packers could save about 5 million off the 2019 cap by cutting Graham at the end of the season. But they'd need to do it early because he's due a 5.3 Million roster bonus on the 3rd day of the 2019 league year. They'll have to decide if he's worth a 12.7 Million cap hit next year.

[PA Pack Fan]

Two weeks in a row now, we came damn close against arguably 2 of the 3 best teams in the league in road games. We shoulda won against the Rams, and if we hadn't gotten snake bit - AGAIN - with the Jones fumble, we woulda been in the drivers seat against the Patriots.

What a bunch of idiotic whiners in here regarding Aaron Rodgers. He clearly outplayed the other candidate for GOAT despite getting pressured horribly by the pass rush (at one point, the commentator said 46% of the time compared to just the one sack and nothing else close for Brady).

This is certainly not the time to panic and get stupid - as several people in this thread and the gameday thread seem to be doing.

1. Coming "damn close" to winning is still losing.

2. Aaron Rodgers outplayed Brady? What? did you even watch the game?? Check the stats before you post.

3. This is the time to panic, we are almost certainly not going to the playoffs. Have you looked at the NFC standings?

You are on a whole new level of stupid.

[Joemailman]

1. Coming "damn close" to winning is still losing.

Yep. Packers are finding ways to lose games. Mediocre teams do that. The last Packers coach to be fired, Mike Sherman, lost 6 games by 5 points or less in his last season.

[run pMc]

3-4-1, with losses to Pats and Rams is a little early to panic. The losses to the Lions and WAS are more vexing.
I think there's plenty of blame to share, but overall the defense played ok. Red zone and presnap execution on offense, combined with penalties and special teams gaffes have cost this team.

Special teams has probably cost them two games alone (DET, LAR). It wouldn't shock me if M3 keeps his job by throwing Zook under the bus.

As much as people hate on M3, I think he should finish the year as coach. I don't see any upside to having Philbin or Pettine take over at this point, and M3 has managed to find ways to galvanize the team and make late season pushes. The 4-6 R-E-L-A-X year, the 2010 everyone is injured SB run, etc. If he bombs out, I could see them firing him...but I'd give him the rest of the season.

Other thing: Gute is trying to restock a bare cupboard (as others have pointed out). I think the number of rookies and JAGs they're dealing with are going to cost them some close games like the NE game. (Full disclosure: I did not expect GB to beat NE on the road.) The first drive, and the trick plays, were examples of how to take advantage of young players by making them think/hesitate.

A few things stuck out to me:
(1) The stupid delay of game penalty followed by a surrender screen to Cobb. I didn't mind the WR screens on 2nd or 3rd and short, but why not take a shot at the end zone? If Jimmy Graham and the rookie WR's are such tall receivers, why aren't they throwing more fades/jump balls in the end zone? WTH M3/Philbin.
(2) The 3rd and 2 zone read keeper Rodgers ran and failed to convert. Had he actually handed Williams the ball that would've been an easy conversion.
(3) I thought Rodgers' accuracy was spotty, and it's showing in his completion % on the year. Going 24 of 43 is not a good game for Rodgers. There are throws he's missing, and open receivers he's not seeing. Is he so concerned about turning the ball over that he won't throw a receiver open? He used to do that. Is it the knee?
(4) They continue to give up on the run a little too soon, although some of those WR screens probably count as runs in their minds.

[Smidgeon]

Interestingly, I think there's a young, talented nucleus on each side of the ball. The offense has Adams, Linsley, Bakh MVS, Jones, EQ (projecting a little on him) to go with a Rodgers that hasn't run out of gas yet. The defense has Alexander, King, and Clark (and hopefully Jackson and Jones).

They need some help, but they got enough pieces that their record should be better than it is. M3 may be good at somethings, but scheming an offense wide open isn't it anymore. Reining Rodgers in isn't it anymore.