Bob McGinn blasts Thompson for guard decisions

[red]

The 4 WRs and "3.5" CBs are nonissues today, and remain a nonissue until one of them is out to start the game.

well that makes me feel a lot better

is blackmon playing today, have we heard?

[motife]

Of course the number of hurries and knochdowns were up last year. You are comparing to a line in 2003 and 2004 that was truly exceptional in pass protection, a line that almost broke the all-time NFL record for fewest sacks allowed.

From Bob McGinn in January '06 :

With Wahle and Rivera as the starting guards, the pair allowed these "pressures" :

'04 : 23
'03 : 18
'02 : 18 1/2
'01 : 22

With Will Whitticker, Adrian Klemm and Wells playing those positions in '05, the guards alone yielded :

'05 : 69

WILL WHITTICKER
Overmatched from the get-go. He is massive and, on occasion, was able to use bulk to engulf defenders. But body size at times was his worst enemy. He had a tendency to play high, which leads to all kinds of problems. He's a slower reactor without quick-twitch movement ability. He was forever late getting out on linebackers and labored badly in the open field. He led the team in "pressures" allowed with 30 1/2, most by any Packer from 1999-2005, and tied for the team lead in "bad" runs with 12 1/2. The lumbering Whitticker was so bad on occasion that it must have been painful for the coaches to watch. He did try hard. If he did improve, it was marginally. Committed seven penalties, all false starts.
F

ADRIAN KLEMM
Not a lot different from Wahle in terms of height, weight and speed but possessed almost none of his toughness, awareness and functional athletic ability. Too soft and unsure of himself both in protection and as an in-line run blocker. Inconsistent and ineffective on the move. The Patriots haven't made many drafting mistakes in the last six years, but taking Klemm with a second-round pick in 2000 probably ranks at top of the list. You don't need to pay $800,000 signing bonuses when players like this are available on the street. Committed six penalties (three holds, two false starts, one facemask).
F

SCOTT WELLS
Klemm's collapse forced Wells to start the last eight games at left guard, where the club found out that he has to be a center. At guard, it's too easy for behemoths to match up against Wells and go right over the top. Wells' overall strength and flat-footed style of blocking are impressive, but there's a limit at his size on just how much force he can withstand. Was second on the club in number of "pressures" allowed with 22 1/2 despite starting just 10 games. Still makes a surprising number of mistakes. Committed six penalties (five holds, one false start).
D

RUSHING OFFENSE
After ranking 10th in 2004 (119.3-yard average) and third in '03 (club-record 159.9), the ground game plummeted to 30th (84.5). That was the team's worst ranking since the '77 squad finished 27th in a 28-team league. Despite the departure of guards Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera, the brain trust tried to run the same scheme only to discover after two months or so that replacements Adrian Klemm, Will Whitticker, Scott Wells and Grey Ruegamer couldn't measure up. In the first six weeks before Ahman Green and Najeh Davenport were injured, the rushing averages were 72.3 per game and 3.06 per carry. In 10 games with Gado, Tony Fisher and Noah Herron toting the leather, the averages were 91.8 and 3.59.

Not only were the guards inferior but fullback William Henderson, tight end Bubba Franks, center Mike Flanagan and left tackle Chad Clifton fell off as drive blockers. Given almost no alternative, Mike Sherman rushed on only 37.9% of plays, the team's second-lowest run ratio since 1990. Average per carry of 3.4 ranked ahead of only Arizona (3.16). Sherman claimed all summer that the ground game would come around. It never did.
F

[Patler]

To me, the really interesting thing is if you read the season recaps for Rivera and Wahle early in their careers, each was considered the weak link on the line at the time, and the lines weren't great either..

There was a particularly scathing one in the Milwaukee J/S, as I recall, after Rivera's first year as a starter that openly questioned whther the Packers could live with him as a starter. As I recall he was credited with close to 40 "pressures" by himself that year. Wahle of course was in and out of the lineup for 3 years before becoming established.

Thre is a lot to be said for experience, both individually and collectively in the O-line.

[KYPack]

You take McGinn's column (&B's rants), multiply it 1000 times and post it on here for my reply.

A sucessful NFL franchise can NOT be in the position we are in. Two rookie starting guards and another rookie for back-up.

If Thompson doesn't learn how to run the Vet FA market, he won't be our GM that much longer. Our line is entering it's second year of ineptitiude. We gotta get some talent ijn here irf we are gonna win. Our kids ain't gonna be grown for a few years, in the meantime, we're in a world of hurt!.

Where are the vets we need to fill out the roster?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I agree with McGinn & Bretsky. But I don't like McGinn's opportunism by publishing this article on the day that the new guards are likely to be embarassed by the Bears outstanding D line. It hope the guards hold-up today, against all odds, and make McGinn look foolish.

[Patler]

There is always hope. No one in their right minds would think you could have a successful season with two rookie tackles either, but it worked. Maybe GB can get lucky twice!

I'll be happy if they are just better than last year at guard. Spitz and Moll don't have to perform as well as Clifton and Tauscher did as rookies at tackle.

[motife]

I agree with McGinn & Bretsky. But I don't like McGinn's opportunism by publishing this article on the day that the new guards are likely to be embarassed by the Bears outstanding D line. It hope the guards hold-up today, against all odds, and make McGinn look foolish.

The article is an indictment not of Jason Spitz and Tony Moll, who both look like promising prospects on paper, but of Ted Thompson, of whom McGinn writes, "judged by outward appearances ... doesn't have a care in the world."

I keep thinking of Ron Wolf's faint praise of Thompson : "He has a lot more patience than I do."

"Against all odds" though, I always think we're going to win before the game starts.

Unless we're in a dome, and I see that "I just swallowed a toad" somber look on Favre's face during the pre-game warmup.

[motife]

Who all would feel more comfortable going into this game with Jim Bates as Head Coach?

What he did with the defense last year was a miracle, solidifying its scheme, getting more effort than anyone could have ever expected out of the talent he had, and with a track record that inspired confidence in both player and fan alike?

However, please note : Everyone be sure to read the other Bob McGinn article today in a coversation with Mike McCarthy on the running game. It's the most revealing, impressive interview I've heard with McCarthy yet. Too bad we don't have Ricky Williams or Deuce McCallister though. Let alone, Joe Horn and Donte Stallworth :

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=494152

and this one :

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=492900

There may be hope yet.

McCarthy's most interesting comment is most defenses play at a 4.5 40 time during a game. But if they know what you're going to do, i.e. pass, they play at 4.3, 4.4. If you play 50/50 football (actually 46%+ run) they play at a 4.7 speed.

[Packers4Ever]

It's hard to know how Moll and Spitz will turn out. All I can say is, Thompson needs to be right about what he has done with the guard situation. If, 2 years from now, we're still having this same conversation, it is Thompson's job that will be on the line. Keep in mind that the guy who hired Thompson (Harlan) is retiring. We don't really know how Jones feels about Ted Thompson.

Joe, you're right, TT does need to be right about the guard situation and others too but I have a feeling people could be livid well before then.
I'm still on the fence.

[Packers4Ever]

I agree with McGinn & Bretsky. But I don't like McGinn's opportunism by publishing this article on the day that the new guards are likely to be embarassed by the Bears outstanding D line. It hope the guards hold-up today, against all odds, and make McGinn look foolish.

I agree too, Harlan, but McGinn is the biggest putz in local sports' media!
How tacky !!
Hopefully the new young players come up looking great !

[Kiwon]

For those who have read my rants, I'd again like to point out that I am NOT Bob McGinn; but his article has summed up my strong views on this forum the past three months, and last year, regarding our OL situation.

Bretsky

We have talked about it all off-season. It's no surprise they fall apart on opening day. Sacks, knock downs, pressures, ints., penalties.

Surprise, surprise.

[SkinBasket]

McGinn takes every chance he gets to lay the blame on TT for the guard situation. I have never seen him address how he would have proposed keeping one of the two other than the ambiguous "rework some deals." solution. What a boner.

[MJZiggy]

Hah!!! Shows what McGinn knows. It was the vets that looked like hell tonight, Not the new guards!!

[FritzDontBlitz]

i'm just curious: has anyone ever blamed jags for the sorriness of the o-line? isn't he supposed to be the resident zone blocking guru?

[The Leaper]

The kids showed me something today. Unlike McGinn, I feel 10 times more confident with Moll and Spitz than I ever did with Whitty and Klemm/O'Dwyer/Buttplug. They at least have room for dramatic improvement in the next 8-12 games.

McGinn acts like it is the easiest thing on the planet attracting top tier FAs to Green Bay right now. It took Favre five months to decide to come back...like any major upgrade at OG was going to sign the dotted line to join a 4-12 team. There isn't anyone he could name that was a major upgrade who would've actually come to Green Bay this offseason...especially as Favre waffled.