Bobbles Offseason Position group breakdown: Quarterbacks

[pbmax]

Actually he should have thrown that to Nelson, who was more open. Still, there were a lot of times when that quick, deep vertical game was devastating.

BTW, I clicked on the Steelers-Packers game from last year on my DVR last night. That game-tying drive at the end of the game was probably one of Stubby's greatest game-calling sequences. The whole game really was well designed and called. Shame they lost. Stubby is a good coach. Some team is gonna be happy they sign him up. OK, that's it for Stubby/Steelers talk for me.

When he felt threatened by the opponent or venue, he could do a what of a job. But he could be this far too complacent of a figure too much of the time. And THAT guy got positively Schottenhiemerian when it came to crunch time.

[pbmax]

Actually he should have thrown that to Nelson, who was more open. Still, there were a lot of times when that quick, deep vertical game was devastating.

BTW, I clicked on the Steelers-Packers game from last year on my DVR last night. That game-tying drive at the end of the game was probably one of Stubby's greatest game-calling sequences. The whole game really was well designed and called. Shame they lost. Stubby is a good coach. Some team is gonna be happy they sign him up. OK, that's it for Stubby/Steelers talk for me.

The success of the vertical sideline passing game probably cut Jennings time with the Packers down by a year or two.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't want any other QB at all. Except maybe a nice backup.

But we saw all this at work with Rodgers in 2008 and 2009 (briefly, til the Cowboy game). He wants something more than the defense is giving him. So he doesn't take the first read of the progression. He waits. Sure, sometimes that is coverage or a bad read, but especially now its him choosing to wait.

Its so ingrained in him he's done it on fourth down, late in a game they are trailing and gotten sacked.

I would absolutely trade a small increase in INTs for more quick passes, because that tradeoff is going to score the Packers more points because it will sustain drives. How many INTs did Brees or Brady have this year? Its certainly possible to be careful and quick. Rodgers can read a D like no one's business.

Think back to the drive versus the Steelers that ended in Jennings TD catch between Polamalu and Clark. That is the kind of quick, on rhythm throwing he needs to get back. They can still do extended offense when they need to, but it doesn't have to be the default offense on 3rd and 1.

I have nothing against a few of those "quick, on rhythm" throws being mixed in, just as they should mix in an occasional run play for change of pace. But I want a down-the-field throwing game to be the default setting. And given the poor pass protection, that quick passing game becomes even more of a risk for interceptions than otherwise. Going back to guys like Randall Cunningham, and even all the way back to Fran Tarkenton, I have always preferred a mobile QB avoiding the pass rush and throwing it down the field - not necessarily a 40 yard bomb for a TD every time, but some kind of a pass for a first down - 10, 15, 20 yards at least. What are the odds of that failing 3 times in a row and needing to punt? Not nearly as likely as wasting a down with a first down run or throwing short then ending up with 3rd and any amount needed to avoid a punt. Point being, if the goal is sustaining drives, that quick short passing game or even worse, a run-first offense just isn't as good.

Maybe you guys will get what you crave having a new coach mess with what Aaron Rodgers does; I sincerely hope not, as things would be a helluva lot worse that way IMO.

Brady had 11 interceptions and 37 for the last five years. Brees had just 5 this year, but 56 for the last five years. Aaron Rodgers had just 2, of course, and 28 for the past five seasons. I sure as hell know which one I will take. Yeah, it's possible to be "careful and quick", but it's more difficult and more risky.

[mraynrand]

When he felt threatened by the opponent or venue, he could do a what of a job. But he could be this far too complacent of a figure too much of the time. And THAT guy got positively Schottenhiemerian when it came to crunch time.

Do you think he'll take some time to reflect and self-scout - or allow someone else to scout and critique him? Would be interesting. I'd volunteer, but I don't think he'd listen to me.

"Schottenhiemerian" - This word deserves to be in the lexicon.

[pbmax]

Do you think he'll take some time to reflect and self-scout - or allow someone else to scout and critique him? Would be interesting. I'd volunteer, but I don't think he'd listen to me.

"Schottenhiemerian" - This word deserves to be in the lexicon.

Honestly? I don't think so. I don't think he is that curious or analytical. He seems entirely motivated by what his weekly game planning session tells him after the film review.

His last big adjustment was to the no huddle. I suspect that was a reaction to the slowdown his offense faced versus teams with such a good pass rush that the team couldn't get to its core game plan of attacking wide.

But the no huddle was very reliant on Rodgers bailing it out at times with free plays and 12 men calls. I am not sure it ever really increased his plays per game numbers, which could wear out a pass rush.

Conversely, he might adapt given that his next QB will probably not be as accomplished at bailing out the plan. It might reinvigorate him. He could do it with Flynn and he took baby steps with Hundley. But I would bet more of the same.

[bobblehead]

There are plenty of QBs around who do exactly as ya'all wish Aaron Rodgers would do. I wouldn't trade Aaron Rodgers for ANY of them; Who among you would?

Rush to get rid of the ball quick and you inevitably get interceptions, not to mention a lot of short gains that are no better than running plays. Speaking of poor pass protection, WHEN did Aaron Rodgers EVER consistently get 3 seconds, even 2.5 seconds of a clean pocket - as Brady and really MOST QBs expect and get almost all the time? Brady, as immobile as he is, wouldn't survive half a game playing behind the Packers O Line.

I'm not too disappointed that Aaron Rodgers opted out of the Pro Bowl, but about the only reason I was looking forward to seeing him there was to see exactly how good he would do with decent protection - which a Pro Bowl O Line plus favorable pass rush rules would have given him.

Let me name a few who get rid of the ball much quicker than rodgers. Brady, Maholmes, Brees, Goff. What do they all have in common...its escaping me.

[bobblehead]

I don't want any other QB at all. Except maybe a nice backup.

But we saw all this at work with Rodgers in 2008 and 2009 (briefly, til the Cowboy game). He wants something more than the defense is giving him. So he doesn't take the first read of the progression. He waits. Sure, sometimes that is coverage or a bad read, but especially now its him choosing to wait.

Its so ingrained in him he's done it on fourth down, late in a game they are trailing and gotten sacked.

I would absolutely trade a small increase in INTs for more quick passes, because that tradeoff is going to score the Packers more points because it will sustain drives. How many INTs did Brees or Brady have this year? Its certainly possible to be careful and quick. Rodgers can read a D like no one's business.

Think back to the drive versus the Steelers that ended in Jennings TD catch between Polamalu and Clark. That is the kind of quick, on rhythm throwing he needs to get back. They can still do extended offense when they need to, but it doesn't have to be the default offense on 3rd and 1.

It also keeps your defense off the field and rested...and the opposing offense off the field and out of rhythm.

[Pugger]

Well, see now Pugger, this is where you and the rest of the board are confused.

As tex has amply demonstrated with video clips and clear headed explainers, a QB who stands in the pocket and delivers the ball in less than 3 seconds is by definition benefitting from exceptional pass protection.

Rogers dancing in the pocket for 5+ seconds and having to avoid rushers is suffering from poor pass protection.

QED

I don't think our OL was as poor at pass pro as you are suggesting - when healthy. I suspect a lot of the times Rodgers is dancing around after a few seconds is because either he isn't seeing/ignoring open players underneath and/or our receivers are not getting open down field or coming back to AR when the play breaks down. OL can't hold 'em off forever.

[pbmax]

I don't think our OL was as poor at pass pro as you are suggesting - when healthy. I suspect a lot of the times Rodgers is dancing around after a few seconds is because either he isn't seeing/ignoring open players underneath and/or our receivers are not getting open down field or coming back to AR when the play breaks down. OL can't hold 'em off forever.

I am not suggesting this. Tex is.

[texaspackerbacker]

I am not suggesting this. Tex is.

Damn Straight!

[Pugger]

I am not suggesting this. Tex is.

If AR was ignoring open guys underneath that's on him. If receivers are not getting open or coming back to AR when the play goes to hell that's on them and the WR coach. I suspect all of them were to blame for our offensive issues last year along with Stubby.

[bobblehead]

Again, not much different from my initial analysis. I started with the 2 positions that I expected to be pretty much the same for a reason. Now onto more fun discussions.

[bobblehead]

One thing that Brady does is he gets that ball out of there quickly before the defense can get anywhere near him. If MLF can get Rodgers to emulate that perhaps Rodgers won't get so banged up.

An effective run game that isn't 100% telegraphed will help with that a lot as well.

[texaspackerbacker]

As it has been for a long time with the Packers, the running game is anything but telegraphed. It is - and arguably should be - the rare exception, set up by a steady diet of passes. I, for one, hope it continues that way. Yeah yeah yeah, LaFleur has his new offense. However, a good coach adapts his schemes to personnel, not forcing something new that goes against the grain of the personnel. I expect to see a few noticeable changes in the type of running plays and maybe a few new wrinkles in the passing game too, but I absolutely don't expect the Packers to go all in for run-first - I damn well hope not. I expect the Packers in general and Aaron Rodgers in particular to have a great offensive season. Combine that with the best D money can buy, and it should be fun year.

[run pMc]

I prefer a quick rhythm passing game. They have some players who can run after the catch, plus I think it's a good way to help jumpstart your offense and especially your QB. Once you have that going a little bit and the opposing CBs get tempted to creep up on the route you can go more vertical. I'd think a player like MVS or EQ with their size/speed and a full step on a CB who had to recover and catch up could be scary for a DC.

As mentioned the quick passing game also protects your QB and makes your OL look better. A healthy Rodgers with a clean jersey usually leads to good things.

I don't think you can do it all the time though -- defenses will eventually press/bump and wreck the timing or jump the routes.