The need for Speed

[texaspackerbacker]

We're blowing poor radagast's thread all to hell - I don't know why this Brewer stuff is here hahahahaha.

I have no quarrel with Melvin, but as I said in the Brewer forum, Counsel has screwed things up big time, and for the most part, I'm not talking about an occasional game with relievers from Inning One on. So many times, he has had somebody pitch one good inning, then pinch hit in a non-critical situation for him, then put somebody else in who gives away the game. One of the main ones I'm talking about is Guerra, who used to be a starter and ought to be perfectly capable of going several innings. Other times, a guy will obviously not have it that day, and rather than sensing that quickly like a good manager should, he'll leave them in for 4 or 5 batters, and the game is gone - like the Giants the other night. Sometimes misusing Hader is another item. The lousy base running that so often takes the Brewers out of promising situations is a whole other thing, and the buck stops with the manager on blame there. I have no idea if motivation is a problem or what the hell else might be, but something is, and I primarily blame Counsel for managing to lose with such a talented team.

[Radagast]

The need for speed can extend to Baseball as well. To debate the subject is admirable, but to deliberately post in threads to be disruptive, on a continuing basis, only reflects upon the poster. No one can expect to be agreed with all of the time, however no one appreciates being attacked for posting a thread related opinion.

Uncivil behavior has unfortunately become all too commonplace today and forums are no exception. When I witness bad behavior in a public place, it's easy to blame the poor behavior on the person doing it, but the real blame is that they were never taught to behave in the first place. Churches, social organisations (Scouting, Boys Clubs, etc.), and Little Leagues can teach good manners/character, yet less and less gain the life lessons that they teach. As a result, forums like this one can be assured of a steady supply of low character/uncivil posters.

[hoosier]

The need for speed can extend to Baseball as well. To debate the subject is admirable, but to deliberately post in threads to be disruptive, on a continuing basis, only reflects upon the poster. No one can expect to be agreed with all of the time, however no one appreciates being attacked for posting a thread related opinion.

Uncivil behavior has unfortunately become all too commonplace today and forums are no exception. When I witness bad behavior in a public place, it's easy to blame the poor behavior on the person doing it, but the real blame is that they were never taught to behave in the first place. Churches, social organisations (Scouting, Boys Clubs, etc.), and Little Leagues can teach good manners/character, yet less and less gain the life lessons that they teach. As a result, forums like this one can be assured of a steady supply of low character/uncivil posters.

Little League can teach character but it can also provide a theater for self-important parents who ruin the game for their kids (and everyone else's). Churches can teach character but they can also foster judgmental, pious flocks. Scouts...I don't have anything bad to say about Scouts. But seriously, Radagast, do you consider yourself a well mannered poster?

[Radagast]

Little League can teach character but it can also provide a theater for self-important parents who ruin the game for their kids (and everyone else's). Churches can teach character but they can also foster judgmental, pious flocks. Scouts...I don't have anything bad to say about Scouts. But seriously, Radagast, do you consider yourself a well mannered poster?

I value civility, but will stand up for myself and what I believe in. As for churches, learning the Bible is a foundation builder for the young, being judgemental is what adults do. That does not say I agree with the views of churches, but the bible itself has endured the test of time. My point was that character/good manners are learned early in life and too many receive little to no training at home or with a qualified youth organization.

[hoosier]

I have to say, you come across here as a scold.

[pbmax]

Gonna move the baseball commentary over to the Brewers thread.

[mraynrand]

Gonna move the baseball commentary over to the Brewers thread.

I was hoping it would continue until someone brought up Sixto Lezcano.

[pbmax]

I was hoping it would continue until someone brought up Sixto Lezcano.

Should have been a Packers DB.

[George Cumby]

Barkevious Mingo.

Drafted by the Browns. Now playing for the Seahags.

I just like to say the name, Barkevious Mingo.

Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.Barkevious Mingo.

BAR KE VI OUS. MIN GO.

BARKEVIOUS MINGO

BARKEVIOUS MINGO

[esoxx]

I've always enjoyed saying the word chipotle. I could say it all day frankly.

[bobblehead]

They gave a lot of young, fast new players. Gute does pick more speed guys with MVS, Alexander, King and Savage all being elite speed guys. Let’s hope they pan out!

And yes. Speed will help if they’re good players!

King was drafted by TT. As was David Clowney. Josh Jones ran a 4.4 and DRandall ran a 4.4. I could go on all day.

Speed does not make a great player. The 40 is the most over rated stat in the NFL. Yay John Ross!!

[bobblehead]

Can you point out those worthless players that don't meet the skills test? As for being in shape, I can't recall the last time I saw an out of shape NFL player. Many areas of a players overall performance ratings begin with speed. They may be super strong, but if they have slow foot speed, then the rest is irrelevant.

Most positions do require speed as a 1st tier qualifier. Few positions can overlook a slow player. Even defensive linemen sometimes need to chase down a QB or RB. Yes tackling, catching, throwing, and other skills are very important, but without speed the execution of a player can fall short. If opposing RBs are turning the corner on you to extend for an additional 6 to 8 yards, then it's likely those monster strong LBs are too damn slow.

2 posts into this thread (including starting it) and you displayed more ignorance than I can handle in one offseason. No NFL player out of shape? Holy smokes.

[bobblehead]

There are not enough posters to get a true variety of opinions. Players like Fitzgerald are blessed with great coordination and yes quickness. Yet why do we say that this or that player has lost a half or full step? Speed does matter and so does quickness, but many a skilled player has been cut because another equally skilled player ran faster. I know that speed is a strong asset in football as well as in many other sports too.

As for patting myself on the back, that's not so. I simply try to post the best argument I can. As for support, this is the low season for posting to this forum.

You are correct, its low tide in football. Maybe I was too hard on you for trying to stir up some debate and you make a fair point in that things being equal speed matters. Let me support and disagree with things I've read so far. Gutes indeed has drafted speed early. TT drafted speed like crazy especially later in his tenure. Problem he had was he was trying to find gems later simply by drafting speed. He also tried to force drafting CB's in a draft without any (proving why BPA is the only way to go).

Before we crown Gutes the second coming lets all slow our roll and realize that right now we have seen one draft class hit the turf and it had exactly one good player so far with potential only from others. He has signed one big name FA that has played a down in GB and it was a huge disappointment. TT obviously slipped up in 2015, but I still maintain the real problem at the end was fat mike. He ran practices for shit, he game planned for shit and he lead for shit.

But to the original point. Speed is one of many assets. All things equal you want speed. But so many other things go into it as JH has pointed out. The desire to improve (MVS is working with randy moss and obviously wants to be great). Technical skills (Devante is a technician, not an athlete). Heart (Bakhtiari is a battler, he never gives up on a play). Intstincts (Aaron Jones sees holes before they open). Explosiveness (when Kenny Clarke hits you, you know it). Power/Balance (Linsley is always in position and a little bull).

After glimpsing some film, Gutes valued Savage for speed, yes, but his instincts and smarts really pop when you look for it. Alexander is fast, but he is another one who doesn't give up...he never thinks he is beat on a play til its over. Gary is a humble guy who did his job to the detriment of his stats. I hope the offseason positivity lasts, but speed alone does not make a football player...and TT drafted plenty of fast flops in his career. He also drafted a lot of James Jones, Bakhtiari, Bulaga, Lacy, Devonte...I could go on all day.

Edit: Gutes traded back rather than take my guy, Derwin James. Derwin was good in the 40 (but something like 9th among safeties). Derwin turned in a stellar rookie year and is on his way to being a top NFL safety. Maybe he should have looked at ALL the numbers and the on field production a bit.

[bobblehead]

For some odd reason I am the only member of the Oren Burks Fan Club. Wanna' be fan #2?

I'll chime in. He is working on the right thing. His biggest weakness was play recognition. He never knew what the hell was going on until too late. In college he was fast enough to get away with it most of the time (but the weakness was obvious. Wist bitched about it about 5 minutes after the pick). Several articles about him working on his eyes, his reads and his keys. We know he is agile for a guy his size. But that is useful if you are in quicksand for the first 2 seconds of the play.

[bobblehead]

As I was rewatching GB's 2016 Wildcard game vs Washington recently, a few things stood out.

First was James Jones and how his downfield threat opened up the middle of the field for shorter 10 to 15 yd gains.

Second was Rookie Preston Smith, now a Packer, tackled Aaron Rodgers in the End Zone for a 2 pt Safety in the 1st qtr.

Third was how an O-Line without Bakhtiari opened holes for Eddie Lacey and James Starks that resulted in a Lacy TD.

Last was how Peppers, Matthews, Perry and others put great pressure on Kirk Cousins.

I mentioned James Jones because his speed downfield was a real key asset for Rodgers and the GB offense. I'm hoping that MVS will be such a downfield threat this season for the Packers.

Ruining your own point. James Jones was slow. He ran like a 4.6. Absurd for a wideout. Posters were all convinced that David Clowney would be the real steal at WR from that draft.