The stats are clear, the extended passing play is dead in GB

[gbgary]

As somebody said, 50/50 or whatever between LaFleur's offense and McCarthy's - actually more accurately, Aaron Rodgers'. I like the fact that LaFleur has subordinated his ego that 50% or so to doing what Aaron Rodgers does best.

The title of this thread is bogus. The only reason we haven't seen more extended plays and deep passes is that this group of receivers isn't suited for that speed-wise. That is not a knock on Lazard or Kumerow. I think they would be much more effective if we had a speed burner spreading out the defense more. Adams too. I don't know of this Reager guy, but if he's fast and can catch, I like the idea.

that's the thing. it's NOT what he does best anymore. being 13-3 is irrelevant in this matter. they're 13-3 due to jones, the defense, and incredibly unPackerlike injury luck, above anything rodgers has done.

[Fosco33]

That picture is reverse height-ist if you are a receiver.

Tons of experience but lacked height/speed.

[run pMc]

that's the thing. it's NOT what he does best anymore. being 13-3 is irrelevant in this matter. they're 13-3 due to jones, the defense, and incredibly unPackerlike injury luck, above anything rodgers has done.

Yep. Everytime a pass play goes off schedule or I see Rodgers take a deep drop, I just assume it will end up with an incomplete pass or a holding call. Used to be I expected a deep pass to Jordy or Hoodie Jones. You can put some of this on the WRs, but I'd also say at age 36 Rodgers' arm ain't what it was at 28.

FWIW, MVS ran a 4.37 at the combine, EQ ran a 4.45, Lazard ran a 4.55. For comparison, Jordy ran a 4.51. These guys aren't slow...it's not speed, it's the ability to run crisp routes and separate (and not drop the ball).

[Sparkey]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2870320-after-packers-bent-to-his-will-aaron-rodgers-now-needs-to-put-up-or-shut-up

"The pro-Rodgers argument: He has been the league's best pure passer and playmaker since 2011, and he has only looked ordinary for long stretches of the last three to five seasons because of stale game plans and weak supporting casts.

The anti-Rodgers argument: His accuracy and big-play capability decline incrementally each year, but he has tuned out coaches and ignored open receivers for so long and has such a huge salary and gift for passive-aggressive blame deflection that no one in Green Bay has the authority or courage to force him to adjust.

The truth about every quarterback always rests somewhere between the capes and the critics. But in this case, the anti-Rodgers camp makes a lot of valid points. "

[Vincenzo]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-up-or-shut-up

"The pro-Rodgers argument: He has been the league's best pure passer and playmaker since 2011, and he has only looked ordinary for long stretches of the last three to five seasons because of stale game plans and weak supporting casts.

The anti-Rodgers argument: His accuracy and big-play capability decline incrementally each year, but he has tuned out coaches and ignored open receivers for so long and has such a huge salary and gift for passive-aggressive blame deflection that no one in Green Bay has the authority or courage to force him to adjust.

The truth about every quarterback always rests somewhere between the capes and the critics. But in this case, the anti-Rodgers camp makes a lot of valid points. "

Bleacher report has some good stuff in it.
The thing that I’m finding most striking lately about Rodgers is the intangible non-stat information being released about his sensitivity and that grudge thing he has.
I gotta tell you that I work with one guy like that and you can’t say anything to him. Lots of bad personality traits: Arrogance off the chart, knows more than anyone, nose in the air as if he’s a genius and if you do say something to him he looks at you as if you have a disease. Meanwhile you’re over 25 years older than him.
I’m disappointed to read a lot of this.

[pbmax]

Yep. Everytime a pass play goes off schedule or I see Rodgers take a deep drop, I just assume it will end up with an incomplete pass or a holding call. Used to be I expected a deep pass to Jordy or Hoodie Jones. You can put some of this on the WRs, but I'd also say at age 36 Rodgers' arm ain't what it was at 28.

FWIW, MVS ran a 4.37 at the combine, EQ ran a 4.45, Lazard ran a 4.55. For comparison, Jordy ran a 4.51. These guys aren't slow...it's not speed, it's the ability to run crisp routes and separate (and not drop the ball).

The one trait Lazard has that Rodgers trusts (not the only one) is that he gets contested throws. MVS waits for the ball to fall into his hands. Also a problem with earth-bound Graham.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yep. Everytime a pass play goes off schedule or I see Rodgers take a deep drop, I just assume it will end up with an incomplete pass or a holding call. Used to be I expected a deep pass to Jordy or Hoodie Jones. You can put some of this on the WRs, but I'd also say at age 36 Rodgers' arm ain't what it was at 28.

FWIW, MVS ran a 4.37 at the combine, EQ ran a 4.45, Lazard ran a 4.55. For comparison, Jordy ran a 4.51. These guys aren't slow...it's not speed, it's the ability to run crisp routes and separate (and not drop the ball).

Doing the math, if you go 40 yards in a shade over 4 seconds, then .1 second = about 1 yard. That puts Lazard - who I love in general as a receiver - about 2 yards slower than a real speed burner receiver. That's the difference between covered and wide open. Sure, route running is important, and obviously you have to catch the ball, but speed really does make a helluva lot of difference.

FWIW, I am annoyed every time Rodgers takes that lame little short drop back. Ideally, he is able to take a deep drop and not be almost immediately running for his life because of the pass rush. And if the rush is there - which is most of the time - Rodgers is fully capable of (as whiners in here tend to whine about) extending the play and hitting a receiver getting open late.

Rodgers' arm ain't at 36 what it was at 28? I haven't really seen evidence of that. If there's any drop off, it ain't much.

[pbmax]

Rodgers' arm ain't at 36 what it was at 28? I haven't really seen evidence of that. If there's any drop off, it ain't much.

Its not arm strength. Its timing and touch. He used to share a brain with Jennings, Jones and Jordy. Doesn't happen with anyone beside Davante now.

[texaspackerbacker]

Its not arm strength. Its timing and touch. He used to share a brain with Jennings, Jones and Jordy. Doesn't happen with anyone beside Davante now.

No disagreement at all with that, but it's approaching that with Lazard - give it time, especially considering they are winning 13 out of 16 games as is. Kumerow also has shown the early stages of that; MVS has not, but there's still hope, and if it ever clicks with him, the ceiling is higher.

I doubt you are blaming Rodgers for any perceived badness here, pbmax, but some whiners and Rodgers detractors in here probably are.

[pbmax]

No disagreement at all with that, but it's approaching that with Lazard - give it time, especially considering they are winning 13 out of 16 games as is. Kumerow also has shown the early stages of that; MVS has not, but there's still hope, and if it ever clicks with him, the ceiling is higher.

I doubt you are blaming Rodgers for any perceived badness here, pbmax, but some whiners and Rodgers detractors in here probably are.

Its Lazard and Adams who keep me from proclaiming Rodgers has to give up his offense.

Adams is good, but not the most physically gifted WR out there. Lazard is even more average in physical traits. If he can make it work with those guys, then a functional WR corp for him exists.

I think he could help himself by throwing shorter at times to keep drives rolling. But their average distance on drives has been good this year, with a big assist from the run game. 12th in yards and 8th in points per drive according to FO.

[texaspackerbacker]

No disagreement here either with the first two paragraphs. Ideally, Adams would be our second best WR and Lazard the third. I'd settle, though, for Adams being the top dog and somebody like Will Fuller of Houston drafted or acquired - a speed demon to stretch the field and spread things out for everybody else.

As for your third paragraph, I would suggest that Rodgers already does that as needed most of the time. If nothing is open - and I mean wide open by Rodgers' standard, then he sometimes takes a shot deep - either hit it or have a harmless incompletion. The bottom line/most important thing - whether some whiners want to believe it or not - is not throwing interceptions.

[pbmax]

No disagreement here either with the first two paragraphs. Ideally, Adams would be our second best WR and Lazard the third. I'd settle, though, for Adams being the top dog and somebody like Will Fuller of Houston drafted or acquired - a speed demon to stretch the field and spread things out for everybody else.

As for your third paragraph, I would suggest that Rodgers already does that as needed most of the time. If nothing is open - and I mean wide open by Rodgers' standard, then he sometimes takes a shot deep - either hit it or have a harmless incompletion. The bottom line/most important thing - whether some whiners want to believe it or not - is not throwing interceptions.

His deep touch having left really hurts the extended offense.

His lack of trust in WR making good (but not playbook) adjustments hurts the Rodgers-tweaked offense.

So when he improvises with those two plans, the results have been very poor. If they got another WR he WANTED to throw the ball to or if the deep touch returned, then we wouldn't be wondering about the Flower offense.

I thought Cleft Crusty was onto something when he suggested part of the Rodgers-tweaked offense was to create interception free space. But that doesn't explain the inaccurate shorter throws. But it might be part of the medium to long throw inaccuracy.

[Deputy Nutz]

Again, the comparison to Favre. Favre had 100% complete belief in his skills and talent and was boneheaded enough to rely on his ungodly arm. He believed there wasn't a window small enough where he couldn't fit a pass through it. Sure he was wrong a bunch of times, costly times, but then there were times where he wouldn't miss and he would light the field on fire with his timing passes and heat seeking missiles and all was right with the world.

Now the comparison, or contrast. For all of his arrogance, I don't think Rodgers has ever played with the same confidence as Favre, or looking at it in a more positive perspective Rodgers plays a smarter game than Favre and that is where his arrogance truly comes from. Either way the ability to throw on time and accurate into tight windows is what makes QBs elite. Rodgers refuses to play that game unless he "trusts" his receivers. Favre didn't care who he was throwing to, he would chuck it up just the same if it was Donald Driver or Taco Wallace. If you refuse to throw on time, then you better extend the play with success. Both Favre and Rodgers succeeded in extending plays in much different ways, Favre was the master of taking a broken play the distance with his stumbling bumbling under hand passes as he was falling into a snow drift, while Rodgers will immediately check off his first read and look down field as his receivers worked to get open. Teams dropped so many guys into coverage against Rodgers that running opportunities were constantly open for him to pressure the defense with his feet.

In the pocket is another comparison, Favre was country strong in the pocket and along with a sixth sense and playground mentality he was able to shrug off defenders and scramble away from pressure. A big gripe about Rodgers is that he holds on to the ball too long and is content to take a sack than throwing risky passes, and that he isn't as strong in the pocket as Favre. l do think Aaron takes too many sacks, but then Favre threw too many interceptions. They both have had their moments at avoiding pressure and making extended plays into their late 30's but that is part of the game that will evaporate the quickest for aging QBs. It happened to Favre, and it is happening to Rodgers. I don't want to fail to mention Rodgers injury history, both times he broke his collarbone he was extending plays outside the pocket. He might feel more protected staying between the tackles.

Favre was the master of the double edged sword. When his talent was properly managed there wasn't a better QB on this planet, ever. When he went unchecked chaos ensued. Rodgers has always preferred to play the game in a much different way, more measured and very much aware of consequences of his actions.

[RashanGary]

Favre liked being a hero. Rodgers is playing a team game right now. Jones, the OL and all 11 blockers feel empowered and ready to rip. 11 fired up is better than Favre.

[Deputy Nutz]

That makes zero fucking sense.