Robinson signed to two year deal

[falco]

Its obvious what is happening here. TT cleaned the cupboard of veteran talent a little too fast, a lot of his additions haven't done shit (aka everyone in free agency this year), the team is so brutal that TT realizes his job is probably on the line quicker than it should be, and he makes a desperate move.

There's no other reasoning for it. This isn't the kind of move a rebuilding team makes.

[Patler]

This isn't the kind of move a rebuilding team makes.

Sure it is. A troubled, but talented player signed at the veterans minimum salary, with nothing guaranteed except this weeks salary. He's a $4 million/year player that the Packers will pay $32,000/week for every week that he keeps his nose clean ($545,000 vet's minimum).

This is a stopgap move with no long term impact on the roster or salary cap. He's a "rent-a-player", nothing more than that. He'll be around only as long as he is not a problem.

[vince]

Remember when drunks used to be so much FUN? Like Uncle Billy in "It's a wonderful life", stumbling over garbage can's yelling "I'm all right, I'm all right." on his way home to blissful oblivion.


Where it's really fun is when your friend gets clobbered by a drunk driving 90 mph through a red light, killing her husband and two children, and you get to be the one to tell her about when she wakes up in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down. Why are you telling her and not her family (Parents and sisters)? Well, they were all killed by a drunk when she was in college. So yes, I'm all in favor of the Koren Robinson aquisition, who cares if the happy-go-lucky guy wants to party it up and drived stoned - just so long as he can catch a TD pass on Sunday. Yay Packers!

Someone who gets it.

Let me just say this, he's a great guy. Wouldn't it make sense to wait until he serves his prison time and get's this shit right? I'll try and get off the subject now.....I don't get TT that's all....

Rastak, because some people disagree with your perspective doesn't mean that they don't "get it." Attempting to diminish other posters' intelligence isn't a very effective tactic. I know it's tempting to believe your position is the only plausible opinion on this, but you're, quite simply, wrong about that.

The fact that the Packers signed a guy with a drinking problem has nothing whatever to do with whether or not the Packers are in favor of drinking and driving. They're not.

This is a company-employee relationship, not a parent-child relationship. It is not the Green Bay Packers' responsibility, or even within their ethical boundaries, to play BIG BROTHER here.

We live in a society (and I thank God we do) that zealously defends freedom, but with that freedom comes risk. People are free to make bad choices, and we, as a society, can't do anything until after the fact.

I have no doubt that the Packers will take all reasonable steps, not to keep him from drinking - they can't and shouldn't - but to give him the support structure he needs to KEEP HIMSELF from drinking. If they thought that he wasn't motivated to change, they wouldn't sign him. And if he does relapse, that'll be tragic, but it won't be because the Packers signed him.

In fact, a goal-oriented, structured environment where he can be productive, coached and supported, is the best possible environment for Koren. This environment will MINIMIZE his chances for relapse.

And it won't hurt the Packers team, when you compare it to today (without him returning kicks), if/when they lose his services for some amount of time.

And mraynrand, to make illogical allusions to romantic memories of past perceptions, then insinuate that this guy drives through neighborhoods, running red lights and picking off children is a gross mischaracterization of the situation, and a gross mischaracterization of the perceptions of those who don't agree with you. He doesn't do that, and has never done that. You can't (legitimately) make stuff up to support your perspective, and you can't demean those who disagree with you as simplistic rubes. You are the one who oversimplifies things when you do that.

Koren Robinson was driving fast on a divided highway just before 11PM during a time when there was low traffic. Those are the facts. He didn't run over anyone. What many people have used to make their argument against him DIDN'T HAPPEN. It can't be any simpler than that.

Also, comparing Koren Robinson to Terrell Owens in terms of "low moral character" is illogical and missing the point entirely. Terrell Owens' ego has proven to break up teams and turn them into individuals out for themselves - fatal for teams' success.

I've heard NOTHING WHATEVER to suggest that Koren Robinson is bad for team chemistry. But I'm open to hearing it if it's true.

That would definitely change my opinion of this situation, but I have yet to hear anything but that he is a GOOD teammate.

Those that are dead-set against this signing, as I see it, are either oversimplifying, have the facts wrong, are being illogical, or simply philosophically disagree about the role that an employer can and should play in a situation like this.

My opinion is that PACKER PEOPLE should support and assist someone with maturity and health problems - not throw them to the curb. The fact that he' skilled enough to earn a paycheck with the team is what puts him in position for the team to be able to do that. That's lucky for him.

[MadtownPacker]

Great post Vince.

At this point, if KR flies straight (enough) he can help the team and that is the bottom line. If he screws up and TT does nothing then its on the Packers.

[mission]

... and with vince's post comes the end of the thread.



















[you have reached the end of this thread. proceed no further. - mgmt.]

[Rastak]

Remember when drunks used to be so much FUN? Like Uncle Billy in "It's a wonderful life", stumbling over garbage can's yelling "I'm all right, I'm all right." on his way home to blissful oblivion.


Where it's really fun is when your friend gets clobbered by a drunk driving 90 mph through a red light, killing her husband and two children, and you get to be the one to tell her about when she wakes up in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down. Why are you telling her and not her family (Parents and sisters)? Well, they were all killed by a drunk when she was in college. So yes, I'm all in favor of the Koren Robinson aquisition, who cares if the happy-go-lucky guy wants to party it up and drived stoned - just so long as he can catch a TD pass on Sunday. Yay Packers!

Someone who gets it.

Let me just say this, he's a great guy. Wouldn't it make sense to wait until he serves his prison time and get's this shit right? I'll try and get off the subject now.....I don't get TT that's all....

Rastak, because some people disagree with your perspective doesn't mean that they don't "get it." Attempting to diminish other posters' intelligence isn't a very effective tactic. I know it's tempting to believe your position is the only plausible opinion on this, but you're, quite simply, wrong about that.

The fact that the Packers signed a guy with a drinking problem has nothing whatever to do with whether or not the Packers are in favor of drinking and driving. They're not.

This is a company-employee relationship, not a parent-child relationship. It is not the Green Bay Packers' responsibility, or even within their ethical boundaries, to play BIG BROTHER here.

We live in a society (and I thank God we do) that zealously defends freedom, but with that freedom comes risk. People are free to make bad choices, and we, as a society, can't do anything until after the fact.

I have no doubt that the Packers will take all reasonable steps, not to keep him from drinking - they can't and shouldn't - but to give him the support structure he needs to KEEP HIMSELF from drinking. If they thought that he wasn't motivated to change, they wouldn't sign him. And if he does relapse, that'll be tragic, but it won't be because the Packers signed him.

In fact, a goal-oriented, structured environment where he can be productive, coached and supported, is the best possible environment for Koren. This environment will MINIMIZE his chances for relapse.

And it won't hurt the Packers team, when you compare it to today (without him returning kicks), if/when they lose his services for some amount of time.

And mraynrand, to make illogical allusions to romantic memories of past perceptions, then insinuate that this guy drives through neighborhoods, running red lights and picking off children is a gross mischaracterization of the situation, and a gross mischaracterization of the perceptions of those who don't agree with you. He doesn't do that, and has never done that. You can't (legitimately) make stuff up to support your perspective, and you can't demean those who disagree with you as simplistic rubes. You are the one who oversimplifies things when you do that.

Koren Robinson was driving fast on a divided highway just before 11PM during a time when there was low traffic. Those are the facts. He didn't run over anyone. What many people have used to make their argument against him DIDN'T HAPPEN. It can't be any simpler than that.

Also, comparing Koren Robinson to Terrell Owens in terms of "low moral character" is illogical and missing the point entirely. Terrell Owens' ego has proven to break up teams and turn them into individuals out for themselves - fatal for teams' success.

I've heard NOTHING WHATEVER to suggest that Koren Robinson is bad for team chemistry. But I'm open to hearing it if it's true.

That would definitely change my opinion of this situation, but I have yet to hear anything but that he is a GOOD teammate.

Those that are dead-set against this signing, as I see it, are either oversimplifying, have the facts wrong, are being illogical, or simply philosophically disagree about the role that an employer can and should play in a situation like this.

My opinion is that PACKER PEOPLE should support and assist someone with maturity and health problems - not throw them to the curb. The fact that he' skilled enough to earn a paycheck with the team is what puts him in position for the team to be able to do that. That's lucky for him.

Wow, I'm speachless. It's 11 pm so it's okay or minimized? How about the police chasing the dude and their safety...look, whatever. What could be more structured than training camp? You think Seattle and Minnesota didn't do what they could for the guy? You are fooling yourself with wishful thinking. I will say this, if Harlen and the board don't care about the bad pub then why should you or I.......


Frankly, and I'll be honest here, if he does his time and gets his shit straight I hope he get's another chance and succeeds...the timing of this is laughable IMO.

[gureski]

I hate this move. It's a disgrace. In my book, this is strike 2 against Thompson. Big deal. He might help to win a game on a kickoff return. We win 5 or 6 games--instead of 4 or 5. Mike McCarthy talks about Packer People and we bring in this guy. Brad Childress and the Vikings say they are going to clean house, and they cut guys like this and suspend Dwight Smith for a game for getting a citation. You don't win in the long run with guys like this. He may be a great guy, but he's failed a drug test, had two DUIs, and ran from police at over 100 MPHs. There's also been reports that he showed up for his DUI trial drunk and other things. He's an alcholic who needs to get his life in order--rather than be coddled yet again.

I have two words for you..

Chris Carter

There's nothing wrong with Thompson giving Robinson a chance when you realize that Thompson is one of the guys who drafted Robinson and has been around him his whole career. There is a connection there that you cannot ignore. This isn't Steve Howe and the Yankees. This is Thompson trying to turn the life and career around of a guy who he has been around for years. It can work and if you want proof, look at Chris Carter. Troubled players who get into the right environment CAN turn their life and career around. Nothing wrong with Thompson giving this a shot. This isn't a stranger to Thompson. This is a guy he has been around and is connected to.

[swede]

K-Rob = bad character move.

What get's me is that in the offseason, TT wouldn't make a move for any other character risks with high talent - such as the most profound WR in the league (T.O.) Or how about some O-Line, weren't there some vet's with talent but questionable personalities?

If I'm taking a risk on a high talent low character guy - why in the f'n hell does it have to be this guy?

Exactly!

[the_idle_threat]

I have no doubt that the Packers will take all reasonable steps, not to keep him from drinking - they can't and shouldn't - but to give him the support structure he needs to KEEP HIMSELF from drinking. If they thought that he wasn't motivated to change, they wouldn't sign him. And if he does relapse, that'll be tragic, but it won't be because the Packers signed him.

It will be the Packers' fault if the tragedy occurs in Wisconsin. There's no reason to believe he would be here if he were not playing for the Pack.

In fact, a goal-oriented, structured environment where he can be productive, coached and supported, is the best possible environment for Koren. This environment will MINIMIZE his chances for relapse.

Perhaps this argument would hold more water if he didn't screw up despite several chances with the Seahawks, and then screw up again only a month ago while in training camp with the 'queens. He has clearly demonstrated that a structured team environment does not keep him on the straight and narrow.

Koren Robinson was driving fast on a divided highway just before 11PM during a time when there was low traffic. Those are the facts. He didn't run over anyone. What many people have used to make their argument against him DIDN'T HAPPEN. It can't be any simpler than that.

He was driving drunk and was driving over 100mph at night on a highway that had cross-traffic. This is reckless and criminal behavior. Nobody was hurt, but Koren cannot control whether there are other vehicles on the road when he goes on a bender. Lucky for him that there wasn't any cross-traffic this time.

Those that are dead-set against this signing, as I see it, are either oversimplifying, have the facts wrong, are being illogical, or simply philosophically disagree about the role that an employer can and should play in a situation like this.

My opinion is that PACKER PEOPLE should support and assist someone with maturity and health problems - not throw them to the curb. The fact that he' skilled enough to earn a paycheck with the team is what puts him in position for the team to be able to do that. That's lucky for him.

I don't like the signing, because it fails the cost-benefit analysis: the potential for enormous harm is large enough that it outweighs the likelihood that he probably will help the team win a game or three.

Koren has had a number of chances ... he has been fined, suspended, and fired by his team before ... and all this happened before the incident this summer. Eventually you have to realize that he's one of thse guys who might make nice for a while, but isn't going to change.

Packer people can't fix him. Maybe professional help can, but he won't have much time for that when he's busy practicing, traveling and playing for a pro football team. His free time will be late at night after practices and games ... the perfect time for him to get in more trouble.

But the decision has been made, so I'll hope he keeps it together until his inevitable one-year suspension.

[MadtownPacker]

Now Rastak, I recall you defending moss when he was pushing a traffic cop with his car and a fat sack of that cush.

Im sure i talked bad about KR and I will still take shots at him but the Pack looked terrible on Sunday so any help, even if it is a convist on weekend work furlough, will be accepted.

[Rastak]

I hate this move. It's a disgrace. In my book, this is strike 2 against Thompson. Big deal. He might help to win a game on a kickoff return. We win 5 or 6 games--instead of 4 or 5. Mike McCarthy talks about Packer People and we bring in this guy. Brad Childress and the Vikings say they are going to clean house, and they cut guys like this and suspend Dwight Smith for a game for getting a citation. You don't win in the long run with guys like this. He may be a great guy, but he's failed a drug test, had two DUIs, and ran from police at over 100 MPHs. There's also been reports that he showed up for his DUI trial drunk and other things. He's an alcholic who needs to get his life in order--rather than be coddled yet again.

I have two words for you..

Chris Carter

There's nothing wrong with Thompson giving Robinson a chance when you realize that Thompson is one of the guys who drafted Robinson and has been around him his whole career. There is a connection there that you cannot ignore. This isn't Steve Howe and the Yankees. This is Thompson trying to turn the life and career around of a guy who he has been around for years. It can work and if you want proof, look at Chris Carter. Troubled players who get into the right environment CAN turn their life and career around. Nothing wrong with Thompson giving this a shot. This isn't a stranger to Thompson. This is a guy he has been around and is connected to.

I guess I forgot about Cris's felonies....oh that's right, he didn't commit them.....it's a similar case but there are many differences. Key differences.
I'd list them but this subject is getting old.

[footballfever]

Being a recovering alcoholic myself of 4 years and being only 24 years old I understand the pressures in life that he is facing. Living in Wisconsin where every social event is planned around drinking its not an easy life, he's still a young man and has a lot of growing up to do and he faces a disease that's hard to understand and hard to contain. I give him a lot of credit for what he has accomplished thus far, there's always gonna be bumps in the road he just has to get up and dust himself off. I know I went from wanting to die every morning or afternoon when I woke up to living a very successful life now after walking the path of sobriety, so hopefully he can do the same. There are many success stories like mine amongst the sober circle and if he's willing he can do the same. It's okay that I broke my anonymity because I did it anonymously lol.

[Patler]

I'll be honest, I have a real hard time deciding how a chronic alcoholic, and specifically Koran Robinson in this situation, should be treated by his employer in comparison to, for example, the following:

illegal drug addict
prescription drug addict evolved from a legitimate medical use
obese chronic over-eater
anorexic/bulimic
someone with aids
someone with cancer
person with multiple non-alcohol related significant driving offenses

Is he really different than the chronically obese over-eater or the anorexic/bulimic?
Does he simply have a disease like the person with aids or cancer?
Should he be treated the same for his driving violations as he would if his BA level was 0.00?
Or should he be treated simply like the illegal drug addict?

I don't know. My opinion changes as I think of different factors.

I personally know a man, dead now from alcoholism via liver disease, who was a very talented and successful business man, never missed or was late for work, gave enormous amounts of time to charities, fund raisers, every community activity you could think of, but drank himself to sleep every single night, without fail. He was a wonderful, kind and valuable person who could not control his drinking problem. Thankfully, he drank mostly at home, and after a few close calls mostly gave up driving whenever he had his first drink of the day. This was not an evil man. No matter how hard he tried, he simply could not control one aspect of his life. Ultimately, he resigned himself to it, and managed it the best way that he could, by drinking at home.

I have no idea where Koran Robinson falls an the good vs. evil scale as a person. I surely don't know how alcoholism should be treated compared to other diseases or addictions. Heck, I don't even know if I agree with the Packers signing him or not. The only thing I do know is that he does have to be held accountable for whatever actions he is ultimately convicted of.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have two words for you..

Chris Carter

I think Cris Carter is a weak comparison. Cris didn't have near the history that this guy has. I'm all for giving guys second and third chances, but this guy has had his first, second, and third chances: 1) Failed drug test, 2) first DUI, 3) second DUI with police chase.

The big thing for me is the timing. If they did this once he gets back from his next suspension, then fine. They believe in him. Right now, he has a yearlong suspension looming over him. When that will be, I don't know. It could be in 6 weeks. It could be at the end of the year.

I don't think he's the magic cure for what ails us. We had four poor drafts from 2001-2004, so we have few guys that are in their 3rd-5th years--which are what championship teams are built on. We are young (29 first and second year players), so competing this year is very unlikely--with or without KoRo. For this team, the move doesn't make sense to me.

Well, now that he is signed, I'm going to hope for the best. I'm not going to overly concern myself with this anymore. I said my peace.

[MJZiggy]

I joked about this earlier in the thread, but the earlier questions as to whether this would be good for KRob got me thinking (always iffy). I think that his chances for recovery in an NFL that is buried neck-deep in money (our money ) can offer him all of the rehab and support he needs to a level he will not find anywhere else. We joke about him coming to Wisconsin, but the fact is that he's coming to a team that really needs him right now, and although they lose nothing financially if he fails, his teammates will be motivated to do their best to help him work through this situation. Not only that, but one of his teammates has been through it. KRob's got someone to talk to if needed without going to his bosses. Also, I daresay Minneapolis is a bigger place than Green Bay. It's easier to get lost there. Not only are his teammates going to be motivated to help him, but the whole community here bleeds for this team and will know him by sight. Maybe a reminder of what he's got to lose as he walks into the bar will help. I'd be willing to bet that there will be people that will do everything in their power to keep him out of his car if he has been drinking. I see bartenders calling cabs and threatening to call cops if he gets in his car. That might not happen in any other football town in the NFL, but I truly could see it happening in GB. And if you're looking for the reason TT signed him instead of signing someone else weeks ago, he just wasn't quite desperate enough yet and you have to admit, if he stays clean, this is one hell of a bargain. I know, it's a big if, but that's the risk he's taking.