2020 Wide Receivers

[GB-Brandon]

You missed a big one...besides the packers.

Look, I'm not predicting an Owl here, I just find it impossible to believe that you can put 2 NFC teams with a combined 17-15 record as serious contenders, but leave the packers off. Then in the AFC Houston has the worst coach in the NFL and only won 10 games WITH Deandre Hopkins. The colts weren't even a .500 team last year and have several question marks.

And I'm not saying that means these teams are NOT serious contenders, I just mean to point out that saying they are but the packers are not is a joke.

Still waiting for Brandons extensive list of teams that are clearly better than the packers. It gets kind of tricky when you have to name them. When you marry yourself to the idea that we aren't serious contenders, but then you have to name all the many teams that clearly are. You end up with a list of teams that clearly are inferior to GB. Teams that we punked just 7 months ago. If you don't do that you end up with like 2 teams, which in the NFL we all know that in all probability won't play like you think they will.

Here we go again. The sensitivity level is a bit much. Nobody has said the Packers will be a joke in 2020 if Rodgers stays healthy. I have said over and over again that the Packers will win some games and compete. They have a bunch of talent on the roster no doubt at key positions. I "have said" Brian Gutekunst is a "joke" and stand behind that. IMO the off-season has been a disaster in regards to filling out this roster and making this a team a legit Super Bowl contender. So we can do lists and this and that etc etc but at the end of the day Gute didn't get it done to do everything possible on the that end to make the necessary moves to push this team over the top.

Can we get "LUCKY?" SURE, but that's now how were supposed to be rolling around here!!!! Certainly not with a 36 YO Aaron Rodgers!!

[GB-Brandon]

Could you imagine Rodgers in a Bruce Arians offense with mass vertical weapons? That would definitely be worth the price of admission.

[bobblehead]

Here we go again. The sensitivity level is a bit much. Nobody has said the Packers will be a joke in 2020 if Rodgers stays healthy. I have said over and over again that the Packers will win some games and compete. They have a bunch of talent on the roster no doubt at key positions. I "have said" Brian Gutekunst is a "joke" and stand behind that. IMO the off-season has been a disaster in regards to filling out this roster and making this a team a legit Super Bowl contender. So we can do lists and this and that etc etc but at the end of the day Gute didn't get it done to do everything possible on the that end to make the necessary moves to push this team over the top.

Can we get "LUCKY?" SURE, but that's now how were supposed to be rolling around here!!!! Certainly not with a 36 YO Aaron Rodgers!!

Sensitivity? Are you reading a bit more into this than there is. You said the packers are NOT a serious super bowl contender. I said to name the serious contenders. Now you are hedging and saying they "have a chance". So I ask you one more time. Who are the teams that have a legit shot if the packers are not a serious contender. Simple question.

But I give you credit for nailing the team Tex left out. Tampa Bay has gotten 100% better at QB and with all those weapons they are a contender.

[GB-Brandon]

Sensitivity? Are you reading a bit more into this than there is. You said the packers are NOT a serious super bowl contender. I said to name the serious contenders. Now you are hedging and saying they "have a chance". So I ask you one more time. Who are the teams that have a legit shot if the packers are not a serious contender. Simple question.

But I give you credit for nailing the team Tex left out. Tampa Bay has gotten 100% better at QB and with all those weapons they are a contender.

I am not "Hedging Anything." I understand you enamored with list's and such and will provide that list as soon as I can as still working on some things. However; I have remained pretty consistent in regards to the Packers in regards to their "Chances." As long a Rodgers stays healthy I expect them to win some games and compete for the NFC North but falling short of a Super Bowl yet again. That's Become "The MO." This is mostly because they have a GM that lacks vision and direction and Doesn't have the NUTS to make the necessary moves to force the hand!!!

Now next year "The Wheels Fall Off" cause Rodgers has had about enough of this SHIT!!!!!

[run pMc]

Are they a legit contender, or was getting to the NFCCG last year a fluke? If they are so close then Gute et al., can't be wasting Rodgers.
(Digression: Drew Brees was basically a .500 QB from 2012-2016 seasons. Marino had several .500 seasons with MIA. Point is, being a very good franchise QB doesn't guarantee getting to the NFCCG, much less a SB.)

It's not like Rodgers is languishing on a 4 win team, keeping the seat warm for Jordan Love to start by mid-season. Last year GB won 4 straight without their #1 WR (Adams), and this year I'd argue they should be better by getting rid of Graham and Allison and adding ESB, Begelton, and using the young TEs more. Adding Dillon and those OL picks feels like they want to bolster the running game, which should be better in year 2 of MLF offense.

Many people would argue they lost the NFCCG because of their run defense, not their offense. I'm not sure they improved there.

[Upnorth]

Are they a legit contender, or was getting to the NFCCG last year a fluke? If they are so close then Gute et al., can't be wasting Rodgers.
(Digression: Drew Brees was basically a .500 QB from 2012-2016 seasons. Marino had several .500 seasons with MIA. Point is, being a very good franchise QB doesn't guarantee getting to the NFCCG, much less a SB.)

It's not like Rodgers is languishing on a 4 win team, keeping the seat warm for Jordan Love to start by mid-season. Last year GB won 4 straight without their #1 WR (Adams), and this year I'd argue they should be better by getting rid of Graham and Allison and adding ESB, Begelton, and using the young TEs more. Adding Dillon and those OL picks feels like they want to bolster the running game, which should be better in year 2 of MLF offense.

Many people would argue they lost the NFCCG because of their run defense, not their offense. I'm not sure they improved there.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Gotta hope Kinsley gary and our fa ilb (cant remeber his name right now) need to be the run support we need.

[GB-Brandon]

Are they a legit contender, or was getting to the NFCCG last year a fluke? If they are so close then Gute et al., can't be wasting Rodgers.
(Digression: Drew Brees was basically a .500 QB from 2012-2016 seasons. Marino had several .500 seasons with MIA. Point is, being a very good franchise QB doesn't guarantee getting to the NFCCG, much less a SB.)

It's not like Rodgers is languishing on a 4 win team, keeping the seat warm for Jordan Love to start by mid-season. Last year GB won 4 straight without their #1 WR (Adams), and this year I'd argue they should be better by getting rid of Graham and Allison and adding ESB, Begelton, and using the young TEs more. Adding Dillon and those OL picks feels like they want to bolster the running game, which should be better in year 2 of MLF offense.

Many people would argue they lost the NFCCG because of their run defense, not their offense. I'm not sure they improved there.

I would argue they lost that game due to Mike Pettine and having a poor game plan and not having the defense ready and not being able to adjust in-game as well. Yet he is still around.

I don't know. Maybe they can push some kind of 4-3 scheme now. You slide Gary down inside next to KC. You got the Smith's on the edge. Burks is apparently in the mid 240's now and is stronger. You got Kirskey and Kamal Martin to play LB now.

Amos would be a perfect 4-3 safety and Josh Jackson as your 4-3 Nickel

Maybe they can be 4-3/3-4 versatile which allows them to match up better against the Niners of the world but also play their schemes they did last year against normal teams.

Even with that I still think once injuries set in that their gonna need another weapon on offense so well see.

[bobblehead]

I am not "Hedging Anything." I understand you enamored with list's and such and will provide that list as soon as I can as still working on some things. However; I have remained pretty consistent in regards to the Packers in regards to their "Chances." As long a Rodgers stays healthy I expect them to win some games and compete for the NFC North but falling short of a Super Bowl yet again. That's Become "The MO." This is mostly because they have a GM that lacks vision and direction and Doesn't have the NUTS to make the necessary moves to force the hand!!!

Now next year "The Wheels Fall Off" cause Rodgers has had about enough of this SHIT!!!!!

You are reinforcing my point. I say the packers are right there with SF, SEA, TB, DAL, NO. But here is the rub. I don't have your ego thinking I can tell you for fact who isn't a serious contender. Things happen. I can see a world where LA, PHI, MN, all could potentially wind up in the Owl.

See guys like you that think "if we just shore up that one thing...2nd WR then we will win it all" are almost always wrong. Your team is NEVER one player away. We could add Julio Jones for nothing and still fall far short with just a little bad luck. Its a big picture and selling out usually accomplishes 2 things. One you still fall short and 2 you hinder all future chances. So if you see a QB you have ranked as a top 5 or 10 talent slip to 25 there is nothing wrong with going up to get him. BPA always and every time. Build the best deepest roster you can and MAYBE you can get an owl, but when you sell out you HAVE to be right. Gutes has to be right on Savage and Love right now. He had to be right on his FA moves last year. There is nothing wrong with our WR as a whole. I would have like to add a Shenault or Edwards. I'm also realistic in knowing either of those guys could flop and Love could wind up an All Pro.

You somehow have it in your mind we aren't a serious contender. I ask you who is? I would bet that your "short list" will be lucky to have the NFC team in the Owl. If you start a LONG list you will have a shot, but if its a long list then the Pack HAS to be on it or you just aren't being honest.

[bobblehead]

Are they a legit contender, or was getting to the NFCCG last year a fluke? If they are so close then Gute et al., can't be wasting Rodgers.
(Digression: Drew Brees was basically a .500 QB from 2012-2016 seasons. Marino had several .500 seasons with MIA. Point is, being a very good franchise QB doesn't guarantee getting to the NFCCG, much less a SB.)

It's not like Rodgers is languishing on a 4 win team, keeping the seat warm for Jordan Love to start by mid-season. Last year GB won 4 straight without their #1 WR (Adams), and this year I'd argue they should be better by getting rid of Graham and Allison and adding ESB, Begelton, and using the young TEs more. Adding Dillon and those OL picks feels like they want to bolster the running game, which should be better in year 2 of MLF offense.

Many people would argue they lost the NFCCG because of their run defense, not their offense. I'm not sure they improved there.

Excellent post.

[GB-Brandon]

You are reinforcing my point. I say the packers are right there with SF, SEA, TB, DAL, NO. But here is the rub. I don't have your ego thinking I can tell you for fact who isn't a serious contender. Things happen. I can see a world where LA, PHI, MN, all could potentially wind up in the Owl.

See guys like you that think "if we just shore up that one thing...2nd WR then we will win it all" are almost always wrong. Your team is NEVER one player away. We could add Julio Jones for nothing and still fall far short with just a little bad luck. Its a big picture and selling out usually accomplishes 2 things. One you still fall short and 2 you hinder all future chances. So if you see a QB you have ranked as a top 5 or 10 talent slip to 25 there is nothing wrong with going up to get him. BPA always and every time. Build the best deepest roster you can and MAYBE you can get an owl, but when you sell out you HAVE to be right. Gutes has to be right on Savage and Love right now. He had to be right on his FA moves last year. There is nothing wrong with our WR as a whole. I would have like to add a Shenault or Edwards. I'm also realistic in knowing either of those guys could flop and Love could wind up an All Pro.

You somehow have it in your mind we aren't a serious contender. I ask you who is? I would bet that your "short list" will be lucky to have the NFC team in the Owl. If you start a LONG list you will have a shot, but if its a long list then the Pack HAS to be on it or you just aren't being honest.

I live in a world that you go ALL IN every year you have a 30 PLUS YEAR OLD HOF QB knocking on the door. Getting those last 2-3 pieces does not guarantee a championship but once again it puts the PROBABILITIES more in your favor. At the very least at the end of the day you can look at your fan base and say we did everything we could.

The Packers can’t say that right now to their fan base so get over it. Quit making it more then it is.

[run pMc]

I think it depends on what "going ALL IN" looks like.
With a falling cap next year, draft picks are going to be more important.
Does going all in mean pulling a Dan Snyder and trying to sign every big name vet on the street? That didn't work so good for him, and GB never really operated that way, so I'm not sure that's going to happen. Does going all in mean trading away next year's picks for players this year?

I think the team should absolutely try to assemble talent, explore its options and weigh the benefits of actions. I would be shocked if the GM doesn't do that. I also think his idea of being aggressive and going "ALL IN" are different from yours.

Like you, I would have loved to see Gute pick a WR early in the draft. I'm stunned he didn't draft one at all. They didn't draft a WR last year either, which is baffling, but somehow they've gotten by. I do think they are overdue and it could be a problem down the road. Recent picks from the TT era (Montgomery, Davis, Yancey, or Dupre) didn't exactly work out. Actually, they've been pretty rotten at WR since the 2017 season with Adams and the Ghosts of Cobb and Nelson.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2017.htm

So if you're complaining about WR, it's not a new thing, and in fact Gute tried to address it in 2018 draft with Moore, MVS and ESB with iffy results. I'd expect him to readdress it soon, but I've been surprised by him plenty.

[GB-Brandon]

I think it depends on what "going ALL IN" looks like.
With a falling cap next year, draft picks are going to be more important.
Does going all in mean pulling a Dan Snyder and trying to sign every big name vet on the street? That didn't work so good for him, and GB never really operated that way, so I'm not sure that's going to happen. Does going all in mean trading away next year's picks for players this year?

I think the team should absolutely try to assemble talent, explore its options and weigh the benefits of actions. I would be shocked if the GM doesn't do that. I also think his idea of being aggressive and going "ALL IN" are different from yours.

Like you, I would have loved to see Gute pick a WR early in the draft. I'm stunned he didn't draft one at all. They didn't draft a WR last year either, which is baffling, but somehow they've gotten by. I do think they are overdue and it could be a problem down the road. Recent picks from the TT era (Montgomery, Davis, Yancey, or Dupre) didn't exactly work out. Actually, they've been pretty rotten at WR since the 2017 season with Adams and the Ghosts of Cobb and Nelson.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2017.htm

So if you're complaining about WR, it's not a new thing, and in fact Gute tried to address it in 2018 draft with Moore, MVS and ESB with iffy results. I'd expect him to readdress it soon, but I've been surprised by him plenty.

Yeah because, "That's what I said Right?"

I love the overplay of it. The "You want to mortgage the precious cap and go crazy and have all-pro's at every position". "WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE $$$$$$!!!!" OMG!!!!!!!

Actually Gute is the one that went out mortgaged the cap last year on free agents and it turned out pretty good so lets get it straight.

I've thoroughly explained what I have meant. Leveraging the cap is part of it but also clearing cap space from other areas is another to make room. The Packers remain 13 million under the cap after re-signing Clark. I don't see any reason to save this much but I am also not advocating to spend every penny of it. Somewhere in the middle or at least what they were gonna spend on Funches would seem appropriate at this time.

My main issue is not putting "NEEDS FIRST" with such a team and a roster in a prime time window to win a Super Bowl. This can be done "Through the Draft." It can be done "Via Trade" as well as "Free Agency" or through a combination of those things. I really don't care how they choose to get it done. Other teams are doing it so I don't want to hear that this is such a crazy practice. Whats crazy is that Gute has shown he has no problem gambling for certain things but for some reason he has massive resistance gambling on others. I am seriously starting to believe there is something more to this because it just doesn't add up. Unless these receivers come out and make me look like a fool this whole thing is a giant fraud cause it stinks. There has been criticism literally from every direction and he has heard it. Same with the issues on defense.

So once again for me it comes down to PROBABILITIES. I will gladly give up a chance to re-sign a certain player(note I said "certain") or possibly a certain draft pick(note I said "certain") for a SIGNIFICANT HIGHER PROBABILITY to WIN THE ULTIMATE PRIZE!!

After all isn't that what this is all about? Or is just to put on a good show and go through the motions?

[GB-Brandon]

You are reinforcing my point. I say the packers are right there with SF, SEA, TB, DAL, NO. But here is the rub. I don't have your ego thinking I can tell you for fact who isn't a serious contender. Things happen. I can see a world where LA, PHI, MN, all could potentially wind up in the Owl.

See guys like you that think "if we just shore up that one thing...2nd WR then we will win it all" are almost always wrong. Your team is NEVER one player away. We could add Julio Jones for nothing and still fall far short with just a little bad luck. Its a big picture and selling out usually accomplishes 2 things. One you still fall short and 2 you hinder all future chances. So if you see a QB you have ranked as a top 5 or 10 talent slip to 25 there is nothing wrong with going up to get him. BPA always and every time. Build the best deepest roster you can and MAYBE you can get an owl, but when you sell out you HAVE to be right. Gutes has to be right on Savage and Love right now. He had to be right on his FA moves last year. There is nothing wrong with our WR as a whole. I would have like to add a Shenault or Edwards. I'm also realistic in knowing either of those guys could flop and Love could wind up an All Pro.

You somehow have it in your mind we aren't a serious contender. I ask you who is? I would bet that your "short list" will be lucky to have the NFC team in the Owl. If you start a LONG list you will have a shot, but if its a long list then the Pack HAS to be on it or you just aren't being honest.

I Completed my evaluation of the Seahawks today and as far as I am concerned you can take them off the list. They aren't winning no Super Bowl this year and probably won't even make the playoffs. Big drop off this year for Seattle and I have them finishing 3rd in their division.

[bobblehead]

I live in a world that you go ALL IN every year you have a 30 PLUS YEAR OLD HOF QB knocking on the door. Getting those last 2-3 pieces does not guarantee a championship but once again it puts the PROBABILITIES more in your favor. At the very least at the end of the day you can look at your fan base and say we did everything we could.

The Packers can’t say that right now to their fan base so get over it. Quit making it more then it is.

I'm making it exactly what it is. You won't give me your short list, but the packers are not on it. You have nothing but bitching and whining.

[bobblehead]

Yeah because, "That's what I said Right?"

I love the overplay of it. The "You want to mortgage the precious cap and go crazy and have all-pro's at every position". "WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE $$$$$$!!!!" OMG!!!!!!!

Actually Gute is the one that went out mortgaged the cap last year on free agents and it turned out pretty good so lets get it straight.

Did it turn out? We spent most on D and we got run over in the NFCC, and the lone OL we spent on is spotty at best. He is an ok guard, but we paid him like a very good guard. Amos was probably overpaid based on last year as well. 2 out of 4 ain't bad i guess....unless you paid top dollar.