Future of the Packers O-Line

[bobblehead]

He good at getting the corner, but that isn't what outside zone is about. Outside zone is getting everyone flowing to the field side and then cutting up or back into one of two lanes. Jones always wants to get to the corner instead. Some of this could be blocking, but it also seems like his preference.

Exactly. If the edge is open he is deadly. If not he strings it out for a 1 yard gain. He never actually cuts back against the grain for the 6 yarder, or 50 yarder if its open. Outside ZBS is the best system available, but if you ain't got the horses.....

[bobblehead]

I agree with Tex, that Bahk is a below average run blocker. He's a very good pass blocker though. Solid player at a position that's hard to fill. I hope hes reasonable to negotiate with. I wouldn't spend through the roof on a guy who is approaching 30.

Bulaga was also a below average run blocker and very good pass blocker, at a position that's easier to fill.

Lindlsey is a dime a dozen. Every team has a servicable center, and a lot of teams have two.

For a RT bak is below average. For a LT he is above average. Most of Jones big hits came running left and Bak getting the edge.

[bobblehead]

How objective are those numbers? I bet it presupposes how good somebody thinks a player is, and as long as there aren't a lot of sacks or clearly missed run blocks, the grade stays high. And as I said, with Rodgers at QB, you aren't gonna have many sacks even though the OT gets beat.

A typical way to grade an OL is if he stonewalls his man for 2.5 seconds. Its irrelevant what happens around him. You grade his play in a vacuum.

[pbmax]

Ok, then why do we get such piss poor pass blocking - consistently, and run blocking which is fairly good at times, but tends to disappear against better D teams? And I'm talking about not just last season, but a decade or more. Blaming Aaron Rodgers is both ludicrous and shameful. His mobility has been the only thing keeping the pass blocking from being a disaster.

Bulaga has been above average when healthy, but how often has that happened for any length of time over the years? And when did you ever see holes opened on his edge (or Bakhtiari's) like what Jenkins and Linsley did up the middle often last season?

Some of the poor blocking is Turner. Some of it is just a poor play here or there. Some of it is Jones isn't the pass blocker Williams is.

Some of it is Rodgers wanting a numbers mismatch so he lets a free rusher go.

And some of it is Rodgers holding the ball.

The numbers show the Packers O line can pass block well. Rodgers is just taking advantage of that to the extreme.

[texaspackerbacker]

The numbers may show it, the films don't. The difference is Rodgers' escapability. I'm not gonna say much in favor of Turner, but there was seldom a big pass rush up the middle. It almost always came from the outside, usually Bakhtiari's side. In fairness, that's where a lot of teams put their best edge rusher, but even that could be taken two ways: because it's the QB's blind side? Or because they knew they can beat Bakhtiari. I literally never saw that "2.5 second stone wall" from Bakhtiari.

Rodgers takes advantage of the circumstance to the extreme all right. That circumstance almost all of the time, though, is duck and run, then either reset or throw on the run - and I doubt anybody in the history of the game has ever been that good at succeeding in adverse circumstances. I just wonder what he could have accomplished if he had better line blocking - like Brady or Brees have had.

Maybe the Packers are intentionally assuring that those circumstances stay the same by getting by with mostly low round O Line picks.

[mraynrand]

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensi...regular-season



In other words, the Packers OL was the best in the NFL at initially giving their QB time to throw. The high pressure rate is due to Rodgers holding the ball for a long time. But just about everybody who watches the Packers already knows this.

I note Tex didn’t answer this.

It’s exhausting ‘arguing’ with Tex. People present facts and evidence. Tex presents his personal assertions. Waste of time.

[Rastak]

I note Tex didn’t answer this.

It’s exhausting ‘arguing’ with Tex. People present facts and evidence. Tex presents his personal assertions. Waste of time.

You get points for noticing that Rand, and points for lots of other things too.

[Joemailman]

The numbers may show it, the films don't. The difference is Rodgers' escapability. I'm not gonna say much in favor of Turner, but there was seldom a big pass rush up the middle. It almost always came from the outside, usually Bakhtiari's side. In fairness, that's where a lot of teams put their best edge rusher, but even that could be taken two ways: because it's the QB's blind side? Or because they knew they can beat Bakhtiari. I literally never saw that "2.5 second stone wall" from Bakhtiari.

Rodgers takes advantage of the circumstance to the extreme all right. That circumstance almost all of the time, though, is duck and run, then either reset or throw on the run - and I doubt anybody in the history of the game has ever been that good at succeeding in adverse circumstances. I just wonder what he could have accomplished if he had better line blocking - like Brady or Brees have had.

Maybe the Packers are intentionally assuring that those circumstances stay the same by getting by with mostly low round O Line picks.

[texaspackerbacker]

I note Tex didn’t answer this.

It’s exhausting ‘arguing’ with Tex. People present facts and evidence. Tex presents his personal assertions. Waste of time.

hahahaha exhausting for you because you always lose. I didn't notice the question I missed answering, but I wouldn't have replied to Viking scum who don't belong in a Packer forum anyway.

[pbmax]

hahahaha exhausting for you because you always lose. I didn't notice the question I missed answering, but I wouldn't have replied to Viking scum who don't belong in a Packer forum anyway.

Unfair! Rastak is very high quality scum!

Rastak

[mraynrand]

hahahaha exhausting for you because you always lose. I didn't notice the question I missed answering, but I wouldn't have replied to Viking scum who don't belong in a Packer forum anyway.

Wrong as usual

[texaspackerbacker]

Yes, you are, Rand.

[mraynrand]

Yes, you are, Rand.

You got me this time. Can I stop the bleeding?

[run pMc]

Bahktiari is good. Full stop. You don't get All-Pro votes by being a slouch...unlike Pro Bowl, it doesn't have fan voting.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BakhDa00.htm

There's a reason teams draft LTs in the Top 5 - a franchise level blindside protector matters a lot to an offense. Bahk will start to slip in his 30's but he's still good.
I think he was hurt and got off to a rough start last season but found his sea legs by midseason.

As for the 2.5 second thing and Rodgers, you could also point to the numerous plays showing him not throwing to open receivers and holding the ball. In other cases the receivers weren't open or teams blitzed (or the OL gave up pressure). That's been discussed at great length in other posts.

[texaspackerbacker]

"unlike Pro Bowl, it doesn't have fan voting" ....... yeah, and who does do the all pro voting? not the players and/or coaches; It's the God damned know-nothing media.

I don't doubt that Bakhtiari was hurt, but I sure didn't see that much improvement the second half of the season - maybe just people getting used to things and maybe the coaches designing it to get him more help.

As for that shit about holding onto the ball too long and supposedly missing open receivers, it's incredible to me that some people presume to know better than the QB on the field. Was there a lot of blitzing against the Packers? Mostly no, because they were able to get such a strong pass rush without blitzing as well as because Aaron Rodgers tends to be so good at making blitzing teams pay. To a great extent, that lack of a need to blitz is the reason we didn't have as many open receivers as a lot of teams, especially Packer opponents.

The bottom line - the most important thing - is not throwing interceptions, and no one in the history of the NFL is better at getting the job done without interceptions than the GOAT, Aaron Rodgers - a fact that flies right over the heads of some ingrates in here.