Week 1 Vikings discussion thread

[Guiness]

That's my concern, he did not lock down a position with the Lions. There were rumblings from the get-go that he was not performing up to his FA contract, but played because of it. Then, after just three years of a 5 year contract, the Lions released him, took the signing bonus hit, then went out and signed a replacement to an even larger $/yr contract than Wagner's. That sounds like a player who has hit his end, even though he is not by any means ancient for a lineman.

I fear this might be a Jeff Saturday-like signing. Hope I am wrong.

But Saturday made the Pro Bowl when he was with the Packers!

[RashanGary]

That's my concern, he did not lock down a position with the Lions. There were rumblings from the get-go that he was not performing up to his FA contract, but played because of it. Then, after just three years of a 5 year contract, the Lions released him, took the signing bonus hit, then went out and signed a replacement to an even larger $/yr contract than Wagner's. That sounds like a player who has hit his end, even though he is not by any means ancient for a lineman.

I fear this might be a Jeff Saturday-like signing. Hope I am wrong.

Wagner got a contract in he the top 5 of right tackles. He's more like top 15, so a gripe may have more to do with a couple injuries he battles and a bad contract like players often get as UFAs.

Performance wise, outside last year, he's consistently graded as an above average RT. Bulaga slightly above Wagner. Marshmallow a good step below Wagner, even at his best.

If Wagner had the RT version on the Lane Taylor contract, hed probably still be a Lion. But he had a Bulga level contract and couldnt stay healthy.

[RashanGary]

For a couple games, I have a ton of faith in Wagner. For a whole season, at his age and injury history, glad we have Turner.

[RashanGary]

Lane Taylor and Wagner have graded about the same. Solid starter grades. They're the same age. Both have had injuries. I don't feel like the right side is weak right now. Just average.

[RashanGary]

Bakhtiari/Jenkins/Lindsley

Is about as solid of a left side as you'll get in football.


Lindsey/Taylor/Wagner is as veteran, steadily average of a right side as you'll find in football.


Jenkins likely growth and the drop from Bulaga to Wagner probably offset each other. I like Taylors consistency a little more than I like Turners hot/cold profile.



Rodgers has played with some different OL combos in his career. There were times where the tackles we're the strength and time where Sitton/(Tretter/Lindsley)/Lang were the strength. When the inside was strong he stepped into that space. When the tackles were strong he stayed a little deeper in the pocket for longer. Rodgers can develop the habit of stepping up and to his left a little more this year. He's the 30 million dollar man for a reason.

[RashanGary]

When Bakh was young, Rodgers had that great interior and was really good at stepping up to make Bakhs job easier. Right now, with Wagner older and Jenkins/Lindsleu/Taylor so steady, he can do that for Wagner

[jklowan]

D line help on the way... According to ESPN’s Rob Demovsky, the Packers are signing former Baltimore Ravens defensive tackle Daylon Mack, a 2019 fifth-round pick, after he worked out for the team earlier this week. The 6-foot-1, 340-pound run-stopper fills the final open space on the Packers’ 53-man active roster ahead of Sunday’s season opener in Minnesota.

[GB-Brandon]

Lane Taylor and Wagner have graded about the same. Solid starter grades. They're the same age. Both have had injuries. I don't feel like the right side is weak right now. Just average.

Wagner’s overall PFF grade last year was 58.6. That’s hardly “Average”

Thanks for the sales job though!!!

[RashanGary]

Wagner’s overall PFF grade last year was 58.6. That’s hardly “Average”

Thanks for the sales job though!!!

He battled injuries and is around 75 the 5 or 6 years prior. No sales necessary. Just an objective look at his level of production and accomplishment is all it takes

[Spaulding]

Wagner can be considered a more than serviceable RT provided last year was an aberration and due to some underlying condition such as injuries versus inconsistency or age related.

Pro Football Focus has Wagner listed for the following ratings since he entered the league:

2019 - 58.6
2018 - 71.4
2017 - 75.2
2016 - 74.0
2015 - 64.4
2014 - 80.1
2013 - 76.3

If you throw out the high and the low (although his high was early in his career and his low was last year and so up for debate on if that suggests a fading player) you have a player averaging out for just over 72 which is more than serviceable in the NFL and likely at least average if not slightly above.

I certainly would have liked the bull from Iowa back at RT but given the cost and his injury concerns as well it's worth the gamble at RT given our ability to slot Turner and others for a few games there if needed. Not ideal but the norm for most teams that aren't the Colts/KC/Saints/Ravens/Eagles.

More concerned about the run defense at this point. Interesting to see the signing of Mack n Cheese today. Hopefully that allows Clark to remain fresh without too much of a drop off in run situations.

[RashanGary]

Bulagas average is about 2 ticks higher. Not all that dissimilar. Bulaga is slightly better and equally injury prone. It’s not a big drop at all.

Now, there’s a chance Wagner is just over the hill, but he’s still 30 years old. He’s got one more I bet

[GB-Brandon]

Bulagas average is about 2 ticks higher. Not all that dissimilar. Bulaga is slightly better and equally injury prone. It’s not a big drop at all.

Now, there’s a chance Wagner is just over the hill, but he’s still 30 years old. He’s got one more I bet

The key here is “Thirty” where most of these guys fall off. Sure, some can hang on a few more years and be productive but to think Wagner isn’t anything more then a low budget gamble coming off his injury and production woes to me is just wishful thinking.

Sure, we could get lucky but the probabilities in these type of signings is far more to the greater that they don’t usually work out. I’d be shocked if he even finishes the season.

[call_me_ishmael]

Bulaga is a top tier player in the NFL. Wagner is just a guy. He's a Milwaukee guy, so I like him, but to compare the two is not really a competition. Bulaga makes 5x the money for a reason.

[GB-Brandon]

Bulaga is a top tier player in the NFL. Wagner is just a guy. He's a Milwaukee guy, so I like him, but to compare the two is not really a competition. Bulaga makes 5x the money for a reason.

Exactly, Bulaga has been a top 5 RT in the league. To spread propaganda that Wagner is a just a tick down is ridiculous. Wagner was a “Stop Gap” move by Gute and we’ll see if it will be enough. I’m not so sure.

[Patler]

No one knows Wagner's performances the last three years better than the Lions. No one knows his injury last year better than the Lions. No one knows the impact of his injury on his performance last year better than the Lions. No one is in a better position than the Lions to judge how he might perform this year in view of past injuries and age.

It appears that the Lions determined last year was less of an aberration and more of an indication of what to expect in the future. Wagner was under contract for two more seasons. If they believed he would still be a reliable starter, he would still be on the team, even if overpaid. There are many players who are paid to be better than they really are. So long as they are still competent, reliable starters, they keep their jobs.

Yes, overpaid vets often are released to save cap space, but that isn't what happened with Wagner. The Lions didn't have a cheaper alternative ready to plug in to Wagner's spot. Instead, they released Wagner, ate the remaining signing bonus amounts against their cap, and then went out and signed a guy to a contract valued at slightly more per year than Wagner's contract. It is difficult to come up with a plausible explanation other than that the Lions determined Wagner would be a very weak link this year and next, so weak that he needed to be replaced.

All that said, as for GB, I think it was reasonable to sign Wagner. They don't have a lot guaranteed in his contract. He can even be kept as a backup for a not atrocious cost. If he does start and hits the contract max, he will ne relatively cheap.

I don't mind the signing, but don't expect much from it.