Week 1 Vikings discussion thread

[Bretsky]

Bulagas average is about 2 ticks higher. Not all that dissimilar. Bulaga is slightly better and equally injury prone. It’s not a big drop at all.

Now, there’s a chance Wagner is just over the hill, but he’s still 30 years old. He’s got one more I bet

I'm calling bullshit here. Wagner is fine at OT, but he's not near Bulaga quality.

And I'm a Wisconsin Badger fanatic. He was a good Badger ! So I probably overvalue him, like many others.

Completely healthy I feel Wagner is average (which probably means he's below average cuz I'm a homer)

Bulaga is way above average when completely healthy

[GB-Brandon]

The big question I have about this game is this:

Will the Vikings still pipe in high volume crowd noise to speakers above the Packer sideline?

From what I gather crowd noise can be pumped in up to the 70 dB level during this altered state of no fans or limited fans at games.

[RashanGary]

Bulaga has a hamstring. Wagner looking like a good move 1 week in.

[pittstang5]

Bulaga is way above average when completely healthy

...When Healthy

Seemed Bulaga was always getting hurt and getting older - not a good combo.

[RashanGary]

Bulaga is 31 years old. Wagner is over the hill and injury prone at 30 but Bulaga is elite at 31!

And I'm the one who sees with a cloudy perspective. Ok

[RashanGary]

Andrew Witworth age 39, Pff grade 72 last year. Pff grade close to 90 most of the last 7 years.

Bulaga 31, Pff grade close to 75 most of the last 7 years

Wagner 30, Pff grade close to 74 most of the last 7 years

It's not a big drop and Wagner is no more injury prone than Bulaga.

Gute made the right move with two overpriced, solid players in Bulaga and Martinez. Made the right move with two low paid solid players in kirksey and Wagner.

[RashanGary]

Pff grades

------Newhouse---Bulaga--Wagner--Witworth 39 years old
2012 66-- 63-- dnp-- 75
2013 53-- dnp-- 76-- 90
2014 57-- 75-- 80-- 92
2015 57-- 68-- 64-- 85
2016 66-- 75-- 74-- 83
2017 58-- 61-- 75-- 82
2018 56-- 75-- 71-- 84
2019 63--78-- 58-- 72

Newhouse is kind of a career 55-60 player
Wagner is a career 70-75 player
Bulaga 70-75
Witworth 80-90


First of all, bulaga is not, not even in his best year, even close to elite. 2nd of all, Wagner does perform at Bulagas level. Newhouse is bad. Bulaga and Wagner are good. Witworth is a career elite player.

Wagner was injured last year, is solid otherwise and had a big bad contract. We’re lucky to have him at half of Bulagas contract.

[GB-Brandon]

Bulaga is 31 years old. Wagner is over the hill and injury prone at 30 but Bulaga is elite at 31!

And I'm the one who sees with a cloudy perspective. Ok

Based on talent and production on the field they are not even close yet you continue to try and push the needle that we got the “Next Best Thing”. I’m fine with it being a Stop Gap Signing and providing some depth but like the receiver position it should not of been the only means used to fortify the position. Time will tell.

See, there is this thing called the draft where a team that was 13-3 had plenty of resources to shore these things up yet they chose to make “Other Things” more important!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Bryan Bulaga is going into the Packer HOF. Rick Wagner is an average at best player who got overpaid who is currently physically breaking down.

End of Story. Please quit disrespecting Bulaga.

[RashanGary]

Pettine talked all last year about not giving up the big play and how the passing game is a little.more important than the run game. With 7 man boxes, the defense doesn't have enough guys near the line of scrimmage to play a guy in each gap. Pettine protected his rookie free safety and instead asked his guys up front to play a gap and a half. They were young guys and didn't stay disciplined in their gap and a half responsibilities. The result was a great pass defense, but an undermanned and inexperienced run defense getting gashed at times.

Fast forward to 2020. Pettine has zero rookies in the back end and experience across.the board. Not once.did he say he was going.to ”lean on the experience and talent of.the secondary last year and he's already calling his shot.this year. What does that mean? It means more 8 man boxes and more single safety looks for savage. He’ll probably mix in some of last years gap and a half responsibilities in the front too, with guys being asked.to be more disciplined during those times.

Thanks to a more mature and reliable secondary, the Packers will have more resources to stop the run. Thanks to a more experienced and battle tested front, even during the gap and a half responsibilities, the front will be more disciplined.

The run D is fixed. Heard it here first!

[GB-Brandon]

Pettine talked all last year about not giving up the big play and how the passing game is a little.more important than the run game. With 7 man boxes, the defense doesn't have enough guys near the line of scrimmage to play a guy in each gap. Pettine protected his rookie free safety and instead asked his guys up front to play a gap and a half. They were young guys and didn't stay disciplined in their gap and a half responsibilities. The result was a great pass defense, but an undermanned and inexperienced run defense getting gashed at times.

Fast forward to 2020. Pettine has zero rookies in the back end and experience across.the board. Not once.did he say he was going.to ”lean on the experience and talent of.the secondary last year and he's already calling his shot.this year. What does that mean? It means more 8 man boxes and more single safety looks for savage. He’ll probably mix in some of last years gap and a half responsibilities in the front too, with guys being asked.to be more disciplined during those times.

Thanks to a more mature and reliable secondary, the Packers will have more resources to stop the run. Thanks to a more experienced and battle tested front, even during the gap and a half responsibilities, the front will be more disciplined.

The run D is fixed. Heard it here first!

Pettine can run his mouth all he wants. Until I see him “In-Game” make the right adjustments needed I have my reservations.

[bobblehead]

The key here is “Thirty” where most of these guys fall off. Sure, some can hang on a few more years and be productive but to think Wagner isn’t anything more then a low budget gamble coming off his injury and production woes to me is just wishful thinking.

Sure, we could get lucky but the probabilities in these type of signings is far more to the greater that they don’t usually work out. I’d be shocked if he even finishes the season.

Big men hit the wall a bit later because technique and strength are more important than quick twitch and agility. If Wagner is healthy he will be serviceable. I doubt he will be Bulaga, but serviceable. And injury has a lot to do with how you care for your body, especially as you age. I can't predict the future as I don't know Wagner in his everyday life, but he definitely has a few years left as adequate if he is doing the right things.

[bobblehead]

To Ismael and Brandon, Bulaga was not top 5. I love Bulaga, but he is more like top 12. Wagner probably slots in around 20. The reason we have Wagner is because both Bulaga and Wagner were slated to be paid as top 5. Both us and the Lions rejected that paycheck, but we got wagner on a reasonable contract.

Patler, the Lions cut him in year 3 because all these deals are really 3 year deals with an out. Most of them are structured exactly this way to be eliminated in year 3 unless the player outplays it. Some teams are being cap smarter like the packers and doing more 3 year deals so we are not paying a penalty when we get out after 3 years. I could be wrong about this specific situation as I haven't seen his contract details, but its the norm and it was the case with Lang.

In short, I'd rather have Wagner on the contract we have him on than Bulaga on the deal he signed.

[bobblehead]

Andrew Witworth age 39, Pff grade 72 last year. Pff grade close to 90 most of the last 7 years.

Bulaga 31, Pff grade close to 75 most of the last 7 years

Wagner 30, Pff grade close to 74 most of the last 7 years

It's not a big drop and Wagner is no more injury prone than Bulaga.

Gute made the right move with two overpriced, solid players in Bulaga and Martinez. Made the right move with two low paid solid players in kirksey and Wagner.

Good analysis. This is about right. Maybe overstating Wagner a touch. Whitworth is an example of what I'm saying about big men aging better in NFL terms. Andre is a very large man. He is very technically sound. He can continue to play even though he has lost a touch of quick twitch. Show me a 39 year old WR or cornerback or even linebacker.

[bobblehead]

Based on talent and production on the field they are not even close yet you continue to try and push the needle that we got the “Next Best Thing”. I’m fine with it being a Stop Gap Signing and providing some depth but like the receiver position it should not of been the only means used to fortify the position. Time will tell.

See, there is this thing called the draft where a team that was 13-3 had plenty of resources to shore these things up yet they chose to make “Other Things” more important!!!

Same old spiel. If I say they suck data be damned. JH patlerized you dude. Accept it. He is correct. Wagner is just a step below Bulaga. Both have injury issues. Bulaga was healthy one year and got paid. Wagner was unhealthy in year 3 of a get out contract and got cut. We got a similar player (just a bit below) for a much better price. You are wrong on this. You are a one trick pony. Everyone sucks ass except who you say doesn't and it doesn't matter how many times you get served with hard data proving you wrong.