Official Fire Chuck Berry Thread

[call_me_ishmael]

Pettine wasn't "fired". He didn't have a contract and we don't know if the Packers offered to retain him and he declined, or the Packers did not make an offer. Frankly, I thought Pettine was a pretty good coordinator. They did make it to NFCC two straight years after all.

I am shocked we couldn't have done better than this recycled guy. He is BFFs with Rob Salad - why didn't he hit up his staff or ask who Salad wanted?

Overall this was a fuck up of epic proportions in my opinion. If I was looking for an up-and-comer, maybe I would have put in a phone call to see if Dave Aranda was interested after he kind of stunk it up at Baylor.

[smuggler]

Pettine's defense was flawed, but they kept us in the NFCC game last year in the 2nd half.

[Fritz]

Maybe the defense is still getting its bearings, but there is no energy on that unit, at all, and zero pass rush. Zero. And I don't think that's just because Z Smith is missing.

The defensive line looks miserable. One of the few times I agree with Tex on anything: Lowry stinks.

And if Barry's not ever going to try to do something to get some pressure, it could be like 2011 all over again.

[run pMc]

What I've seen from Berry's scheme:

- prefers nickel to dime D, using CB's vs. 3 safety looks
- is closer to a 3-4
- rarely pressures with blitzes
- plays a decent percentage of zone

They don't have the horses up front on the DL; aside from Clark, who gets doubled all the time there isn't another DL who is a threat. A lot of JAGs there, and as a result no pass rush. I'd consider putting Lancaster at NT or else replace him with Heflin to see if that gives them any juice.
Z might be a little miscast, because I'm not sure Berry will kick him inside to pass rush against a G like Pettine used to have him do on obvious passing downs.
Preston's played well, Gary gives up contain too much but is also playing decent.
The ILBs are not great, and they still need to improve talent there.
No idea what they are doing with the CBs, I think they are still tinkering there. Best I can tell, the FO drafts guys like King and Stokes who can play press/man well and hope they can teach them to play zone (which Berry and Pettine both do quite a bit).
I think King's injuries have robbed him of speed and he really hasn't improved much since being drafted.

All that said, I am not a fan of Berry at this point, and have a bad feeling Fritz is right and this is 2011...where the offense basically has to score every possession to win a shootout.

[Fritz]

What I've seen from Berry's scheme:

- prefers nickel to dime D, using CB's vs. 3 safety looks
- is closer to a 3-4
- rarely pressures with blitzes
- plays a decent percentage of zone

They don't have the horses up front on the DL; aside from Clark, who gets doubled all the time there isn't another DL who is a threat. A lot of JAGs there, and as a result no pass rush. I'd consider putting Lancaster at NT or else replace him with Heflin to see if that gives them any juice.
Z might be a little miscast, because I'm not sure Berry will kick him inside to pass rush against a G like Pettine used to have him do on obvious passing downs.
Preston's played well, Gary gives up contain too much but is also playing decent.
The ILBs are not great, and they still need to improve talent there.
No idea what they are doing with the CBs, I think they are still tinkering there. Best I can tell, the FO drafts guys like King and Stokes who can play press/man well and hope they can teach them to play zone (which Berry and Pettine both do quite a bit).
I think King's injuries have robbed him of speed and he really hasn't improved much since being drafted.

All that said, I am not a fan of Berry at this point, and have a bad feeling Fritz is right and this is 2011...where the offense basically has to score every possession to win a shootout.

Nothing bothers me more as a Packer fan than watching an opposing quarterback have all day to throw the ball. I well remember that '85 Bears defense and Buddy Ryan's 46 defense, and in all my years of watching football - since about 1967 - that was one of the best I've ever seen (along with the Steel Curtain defenses of the 70's, and the Giants' defenses of the 80's with Lawrence Taylor). Those defenses shut down the run, for sure, but they also had ferocious pass rushes. Just ferocious.

Although I recognize the risks of blitzing, I think coaches generally are too conservative, and this is true when it comes to blitzing. One concern I have is that Joe Barry seems extremely conservative so far, and that is no way to play defense, espcecially when you can't generate a pass rush. In that sense he reminds me of Dom Capers, who seemed to get more conservative along the way.

So my hope is that the players will get used to the system and Barry will adjust to his shitty defensive line corps by playing the younger D-linemen and blitzing more.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Nothing bothers me more as a Packer fan than watching an opposing quarterback have all day to throw the ball. I well remember that '85 Bears defense and Buddy Ryan's 46 defense, and in all my years of watching football - since about 1967 - that was one of the best I've ever seen (along with the Steel Curtain defenses of the 70's, and the Giants' defenses of the 80's with Lawrence Taylor). Those defenses shut down the run, for sure, but they also had ferocious pass rushes. Just ferocious.

Although I recognize the risks of blitzing, I think coaches generally are too conservative, and this is true when it comes to blitzing. One concern I have is that Joe Barry seems extremely conservative so far, and that is no way to play defense, espcecially when you can't generate a pass rush. In that sense he reminds me of Dom Capers, who seemed to get more conservative along the way.

So my hope is that the players will get used to the system and Barry will adjust to his shitty defensive line corps by playing the younger D-linemen and blitzing more.

The Capers era is actually better than you remember if you go back and look at it.

Capers ran the Psycho where Shields blitzed from the shutdown corner position. Wood shined and blitzed all the time from then star spot. Claymaker acted all black and cocky and got away with black cultural appropriation cos his game - under Capers - spoke louder. And the Pack D was pretty good the year they won Super Bowl 45.

Yeah, yeah, Kap owned the Pack and Capers couldn’t do shit about Kap. But it’s cool. Kap’s Kung Fu was awesome.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

All Barry does is sit in Cover 2 all day - be it Cover 2 Man or the Tampa 2.

No disrespect to Lovie Smith, the father of the Tampa 2, but Brooks Fucking Bolllinger dismantled that D eons ago. Brooks Bollinger!

[texaspackerbacker]

I pretty much agree with most of that, runPmc.

I don't remember King ever being very good, and now he's garbage.

I'm disappointed with our ILB play given the fact that Barry was supposed to be a specialist in that area. I see them making a lot of tackles, but only after passes are caught or RBs get 7 or 8 yards or more gained.

I really wish they'd play Slaton. He might be that second force after Clark.

I don't know what to think about Z. Smith. Sometimes I think he's overrated, but you're right, the pass rush was terrible without him.

They need to replace Lancaster with anybody - and Heflin is anybody. Whether he is significantly better is hard to say, but he couldn't really be worse.

I think you're right Barry doesn't go with 3 Safetys much. That's bad IMO, because the Packers have talent going to waste there - Henry Black. I wonder if that will change when V. Scott is back. It could also explain the cutting and not PSing of Uphoff. He hasn't used his Corners very well either, though. Jean-Charles couldn't be worse than King in the slot, and it seemed like he outplayed Sullivan in the preseason too - and he sits. The new guy, Yiadem or whatever, also couldn't possibly be worse than King.

IMO, the best thing about Pettine was his propensity to blitz. And yeah, Barry has gotten away from that. I'd say that is the biggest single factor in the rottenness of our D so far with Barry. He did blitz some in the second half, and it was a little bit better, but more is needed.

I don't remember Pettine playing much zone. That was one thing I thought would be better with Barry, but I still see our Corners playing Man a lot. Maybe that isn't so bad if Stokes replaces King. Either way, though, they need to tighten up against that ball control/short passing game that so many teams use nowadays and that the Packers seem so bad against.

[texaspackerbacker]

Nothing bothers me more as a Packer fan than watching an opposing quarterback have all day to throw the ball. I well remember that '85 Bears defense and Buddy Ryan's 46 defense, and in all my years of watching football - since about 1967 - that was one of the best I've ever seen (along with the Steel Curtain defenses of the 70's, and the Giants' defenses of the 80's with Lawrence Taylor). Those defenses shut down the run, for sure, but they also had ferocious pass rushes. Just ferocious.

Although I recognize the risks of blitzing, I think coaches generally are too conservative, and this is true when it comes to blitzing. One concern I have is that Joe Barry seems extremely conservative so far, and that is no way to play defense, espcecially when you can't generate a pass rush. In that sense he reminds me of Dom Capers, who seemed to get more conservative along the way.

So my hope is that the players will get used to the system and Barry will adjust to his shitty defensive line corps by playing the younger D-linemen and blitzing more.

+1 to this too. I see so many teams play MUCH better D than the Packers with seemingly nowhere near as good personnel.

I guess this is my day to be agreeable. I also agree with APB that Capers wasn't as bad as some people thought. If I'm recalling correctly, Capers blitzed a lot, which I liked.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Tex, King sucks but he sucks less than Sullivan. Sullivan’s a poor man’s Mr. Hyde, and Hyde was an abomination at the “star.” King over Sullivan on any given Sunday.

[smuggler]

Against the Leos, we definitely seemed to be too soft on the underneath stuff, forcing them into long drives, but that actually worked because if you give Goff enough chances, eventually he is going to make a mistake. Against other QBs, that will not work.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex, King sucks but he sucks less than Sullivan. Sullivan’s a poor man’s Mr. Hyde, and Hyde was an abomination at the “star.” King over Sullivan on any given Sunday.

I don't like Sullivan much either, but I really think King is worse - and of course, King being drafted so high and Sullivan a UFA just amplifies it. I wish they'd use Jean-Charles in the slot or maybe Savage in the slot and Black at deep Safety or even Black in the slot.

smuggler, I'd rather have the other team hit big plays occasionally than the damn ball control that keeps our offense off the field. I remember some Detroit games where Stafford would hit several TD bombs, but we'd beat them easily anyway. That shouldn't be a choice we have to make, though. A good DC should be able to stop both.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I don't like Sullivan much either, but I really think King is worse - and of course, King being drafted so high and Sullivan a UFA just amplifies it. I wish they'd use Jean-Charles in the slot or maybe Savage in the slot and Black at deep Safety or even Black in the slot.

Black received snaps on defense in week 1 and 2. I think he fucked up a few plays against NO. Didn’t do anything spectacular against Det. Seems like a JAG.

[Bretsky]

Meanwhile, in Madtown Leonard's units continue to excel, but we have no offense

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Meanwhile, in Madtown Leonard's units continue to excel, but we have no offense

Leonhard’s D allowed 30-something points against that Catholic cow college named after Jesus’ Mother. The D has never been able to stop the Ohio State.

What makes you think Leonhard and his Rex Ryan-inspired D woulda excelled in the Green and Musta Yella?

Frog shoulda hired Al Harris.