Are there HOLES in our LEADERSHIP that are concerning ???

[smuggler]

Rodgers is an envious person by nature. Those kinds of people do not make natural leaders, but he has done an admirable job. What he offers in leadership is not what Brady does, but it's good enough to get the job done. I would not classify it as a hole.

[texaspackerbacker]

Jerry may be a charismatic, larger the life, personality, but he sure as shit hasn't been delivering the goods on the field of late. The Packers have consistently out performed the Boys.

I'm pretty sure I know your response already. You'll attribute the Packers' success to getting lucky with Rodgers. Regardless, that doesn't explain Jerry's failures.

You guessed it.

[Spaulding]

Following article suggests the issue might be with Russ Ball:

- https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/a...an-weather-it/

Interesting read.

[King Friday]

Following article suggests the issue might be with Russ Ball:

- https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/a...an-weather-it/

Interesting read.

More points to Murphy. He's the guy who came up with the strange front office arrangement, which doesn't seem to be working. To me, Murphy did this because he wanted to focus on the business of the Packers, rather than the football.

[King Friday]

And don't get me wrong...the Packers, as a small market team in the NFL, do need to focus on what Murphy is working on. The new revenue streams are the right thing to do. I like what Murphy is doing. I just don't like the fact that the football operation seemingly isn't at peak efficiency. The new revenue streams won't matter much of we go back to the 70s and 80s in terms of performance on the field.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think any Wisconsinite trained as an accountant could handle the business aspect of the Packers. I for one would rather have somebody with home town or home state loyalty running things, though. For on the field stuff/coaching, go where you need to go to hire the best experts available. But for personnel matters and overall supervision, use people who have a Wisconsin-First outlook.

[smuggler]

CEOs are like teachers. The average one is probably overpaid because a lot of people could do the job for less. But the best-of-the-best are underappreciated and underpaid. You're part of the reason for that, tex.

[texaspackerbacker]

How so?

[th87]

First, you assume their complaints are valid.

Secondly, you assume being the best as a player equates to being the same as a talent evaluator.

Lastly, you seem to think that the GM, coach and players all have the same goals. Coaches and players are tasked with winning now. The GM is tasked with supplementing the now while also planning on the future.

The Packers as an organization are far ahead of most teams in that regard. Mostly because they have been able to navigate the difficult job of transitioning QB's. But also because they have done good job of team building around those QB's.

Rodgers wasn't trying to impose on roster decisions - he simply wanted to be kept in the loop on their plans (which they didn't do), and wanted more immediate help ("how" didn't matter).

Goal is to win SBs. If you're close to one, it's asinine to punt on maximizing its chances in favor of a less-likely future chance at it. And when that future arrives, the focus will be placed on even further in the future.

Yes, the Packers have been successful because they've either figured out and/or lucked into filling the most important position with HOFers twice. To accomplish the rest only requires not being complete idiots, and team building has been trash after 2012 until Gute took over (TT's later drafts were poor, with no FAcy to make up for it).

2 first round byes in 10 years of Rodgers until MLF came along. How pathetic is that?

[smuggler]

How so?

I think any Wisconsinite trained as an accountant could handle the business aspect of the Packers.

This.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I think any Wisconsinite trained as an accountant could handle the business aspect of the Packers. I for one would rather have somebody with home town or home state loyalty running things, though. For on the field stuff/coaching, go where you need to go to hire the best experts available. But for personnel matters and overall supervision, use people who have a Wisconsin-First outlook.

Nah, the Packers are a business. They go for the best talent no matter where they come from. Trying to choose somebody ONLY from Wisconsin limits your choices and your potential advantages...

[texaspackerbacker]

I say again, I or just about anybody here could make as good or likely much better personnel decisions as the Packer brass. If you have Accounting 101 knowledge, you could handle the business side, and you go get the best talent available for the on-field side of things. Degrees, training, even experience all mean a helluva lot less than having your heart in the right place - basically wanting the home team to win and making decisions accordingly.

So, smuggler. what you were trying to say is that I under-appreciate Packer leadership? That may be true, but the fact is, they have performed like far from the best of the best. The record the past two years and really the past thirty or so years? Getting Favre, which I suppose wasn't luck, and getting Rodgers, which definitely was luck had more to do with that success than anything else.

[Fritz]

CEOs are like teachers. The average one is probably overpaid because a lot of people could do the job for less. But the best-of-the-best are underappreciated and underpaid. You're part of the reason for that, tex.

As a teacher, I resent that remark. Teachers are somehow an easy target, but once Covid hit, all of a sudden everybody wanted their kids in school more than anything else.

Teachers were asked to teach kids in the classroom while also teaching - at the same time! - kids at home. Teachers were told that they had to instantly convert their classes to online. Teachers spend their own money and their own time so kids learn more. Teachers work their asses off. Even average teachers work pretty damn hard.

I can only laugh at those of you who think just any ol' person could be a successful GM. So guys who are professionals, in the game for years, and then become GM's and fail - what's up with that.

As for the original thread, Mike Holmgren is not one to talk. Did he forget his last year in Green Bay, where he made it clear he wanted more control or he wanted out? That the rumors, based in truth, swirled around for most of his last season that his head was already out of town? That he pushed his way out?

Fuck him for feeling smug enough to comment on all this when he did the same shit.

[Joemailman]

As a teacher, I resent that remark. Teachers are somehow an easy target, but once Covid hit, all of a sudden everybody wanted their kids in school more than anything else.

Teachers were asked to teach kids in the classroom while also teaching - at the same time! - kids at home. Teachers were told that they had to instantly convert their classes to online. Teachers spend their own money and their own time so kids learn more. Teachers work their asses off. Even average teachers work pretty damn hard.

I can only laugh at those of you who think just any ol' person could be a successful GM. So guys who are professionals, in the game for years, and then become GM's and fail - what's up with that.

As for the original thread, Mike Holmgren is not one to talk. Did he forget his last year in Green Bay, where he made it clear he wanted more control or he wanted out? That the rumors, based in truth, swirled around for most of his last season that his head was already out of town? That he pushed his way out?

Fuck him for feeling smug enough to comment on all this when he did the same shit.

One might think Holmgren would have an appreciation for how difficult it is to be a GM in the NFL because he was such a bad one.

[Sparkey]

I say again, I or just about anybody here could make as good or likely much better personnel decisions as the Packer brass. If you have Accounting 101 knowledge, you could handle the business side, and you go get the best talent available for the on-field side of things. Degrees, training, even experience all mean a helluva lot less than having your heart in the right place - basically wanting the home team to win and making decisions accordingly.

So, smuggler. what you were trying to say is that I under-appreciate Packer leadership? That may be true, but the fact is, they have performed like far from the best of the best. The record the past two years and really the past thirty or so years? Getting Favre, which I suppose wasn't luck, and getting Rodgers, which definitely was luck had more to do with that success than anything else.

I would hardly call it luck. Luck is something randomly happening to you that you had no expectation of happening. Were they fortunate that 23 other teams passed on him ? Yes. But the fact is that they did enough homework that when the opportunity arose, they were prepared to make an informed choice. That is not luck.