Studs and Duds, Futbol Team:

[run pMc]

hahaha When is this "0-4 and sacked 3 times" you're talking about?

FWIW, I didn't say Bakhtiari is "JAG", just that he's overrated, and the position he plays is overrated in importance. Of the 32-7 we've gone the past three seasons, what part of that was Bakhtiari there, and what part not there? I'd check myself, except the burden of proof is on ya'all whiners who say I'm wrong.

smuggler, don't know, don't care .... oops, I guess I better say I don't know, and I don't care, so that North Korean shithead can understand.

I'll bite.
(1) the 0-4 and 3 sacks numbers are out there for public consumption by the stats counters.

(2) ok, so Bahk isn't a JAG, but you think both he and the LT position is overrated? Or all OL positions overrated?
Would you rather have Marshall Newhouse, Allen Barbre, or David Bahktiari at OT?
I'm genuinely curious what value you place on the OL and LT.
What about RT? Is Billy Turner overrated?
Is anything short of HOF a 'non-marquee OL'?
Why do you think so many teams put such importance on the LT position?
Of the 32-7, Bahk has been around for the majority of it. Do you think Bahktiari would have helped them against TB in the NFCCG?

(3) no comment/interest re: whatever beef you have with others.

I think you attribute too much of the team's success to the QB. Without at least league-average blocking, their offense wouldn't be nearly as good. They've been better than league-average statistically, and that's with Stenavich coaching up rookies like Runyan last year and Myers/Newman this year.
Is Bahk overpaid? Probably, but believe it or not he is one of the best LTs in the game today (by objective and subjective measures you can find online), and GB needed to pay market rate to keep him (and keep Rodgers happy/healthy).

[George Cumby]

. oops, I guess I better say I don't know, and I don't care, so that North Korean shithead can understand.

Lol.

Your true colors, baby.

[Upnorth]

I think bakh is going to be 1st ballot hof. 5 time all pro. Saying he is anything less than ridiculously great at his job is foolish. I have never seen a statistic in the last 5 years that shows some level below amazing. Plus the eyeball test. He gives up as many pressures in a year as many average of do in a couple games.

Any packer fan who watches the games shoukd see this.

[RashanGary]

I think bakh is going to be 1st ballot hof. 5 time all pro. Saying he is anything less than ridiculously great at his job is foolish. I have never seen a statistic in the last 5 years that shows some level below amazing. Plus the eyeball test. He gives up as many pressures in a year as many average of do in a couple games.

Any packer fan who watches the games shoukd see this.

And he gets very little help. He’s been a rock. I worry he’s not going to be the same for a year, coming off that injury that took him off of his feet for most of a year. But he’s been so solid.

I don’t know if he’s a HOFer. Packer HOF for sure but he’s gonna have to do quite a bit more to get into the pro football HOF.

[George Cumby]

Packers HOF for sure.

I don't think NFL HOF.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's close, but I think getting Jaire back will be more important than getting Z back. They've been able to manufacture some pass rush moving Clark around and with Preston/Gary.
Getting both back would obviously be a big boost. I'm not optimistic about Z if it's anything beyond very very minor back surgery.

I don't think it's that close. All-around, Gary has been close to Big Z last year (Big Z was better in 2019). Pressures, QB hits are as good as Big Z. Sacks not quite there. Run defense better. Mercilus could give us what Gary provided last year. Preston is in shape and has been better. We absolutely have to have Jaire come playoff time. If he ends up getting surgery, I will be much more down on our chances.

[RashanGary]

I don't think it's that close. All-around, Gary has been close to Big Z last year (Big Z was better in 2019). Pressures, QB hits are as good as Big Z. Sacks not quite there. Run defense better. Mercilus could give us what Gary provided last year. Preston is in shape and has been better. We absolutely have to have Jaire come playoff time. If he ends up getting surgery, I will be much more down on our chances.

My opinion has been swayed. Some health luck is needed but we have a shot.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'll bite.
(1) the 0-4 and 3 sacks numbers are out there for public consumption by the stats counters.

(2) ok, so Bahk isn't a JAG, but you think both he and the LT position is overrated? Or all OL positions overrated?
Would you rather have Marshall Newhouse, Allen Barbre, or David Bahktiari at OT?
I'm genuinely curious what value you place on the OL and LT.
What about RT? Is Billy Turner overrated?
Is anything short of HOF a 'non-marquee OL'?
Why do you think so many teams put such importance on the LT position?
Of the 32-7, Bahk has been around for the majority of it. Do you think Bahktiari would have helped them against TB in the NFCCG?

(3) no comment/interest re: whatever beef you have with others.

I think you attribute too much of the team's success to the QB. Without at least league-average blocking, their offense wouldn't be nearly as good. They've been better than league-average statistically, and that's with Stenavich coaching up rookies like Runyan last year and Myers/Newman this year.
Is Bahk overpaid? Probably, but believe it or not he is one of the best LTs in the game today (by objective and subjective measures you can find online), and GB needed to pay market rate to keep him (and keep Rodgers happy/healthy).

Your 1: what are you even talking about - 0-4 and 3 sacks in what games?

Your 2: of course, Bakhtiari is better than Barbre or House - just about any NFL O Lineman is. But even with those two, did Rodgers get sacked a lot? Did we lose a lot of games? THAT's my point about the lack of importance of the position. Most people don't rate Billy Turner very high, so it's hard to say overrated. He isn't much better than JAG, though IMO. "Is anything short of HOF a 'non-marquee OL'?" - frankly, yes. I tried hard to think of individual O Linemen who really were difference makers, past and present, and there just aren't many. Forming a pocket is more of a group effort. You have one "great" O Lineman, and the D just attacks somewhere else. And there are very damn few times where the Packers get a clean pocket - and I mean over the past years, decades even. Running is a little different. We got some mileage out of Jenkins at Guard next to Linsley last season, and hopefully will again when Meyers is back and Jenkins back at Guard, but I really don't think recall seeing many good runs over Bakhtiari - ever. My point on the 32-7 was where do you get 0-4 in that? And of the games Bakhtiari has missed in that time, what is the record? I bet not too bad. And honestly, I don't think Bakhtiari woulda made much difference against Tampa. They were a great D playing fired up. Bakhtiari wouldn't even have been on Vea, and they could easily move JPP around - assuming Bakhtiari is good enough to block him.

Your 3: no beef with you - I'm a counter puncher, and when I call somebody a shithead or whatever, it's almost always in reaction - and true.

Difference makers IMO almost always are QBs and D players, and to a lesser extent, RBs and Receivers - almost never O Linemen. And being a difference maker is what makes somebody a "marquee player" or should.

Yes, I attribute an extreme amount of the team's success to Rodgers - that to me is slam dunk obvious. I don't think we've ever had "at least league -average blocking" since he has been the QB, yet we win and win and win. Put 5 plugs across the line to take up space, House, Barbre, and several others I can't think of the name of, and we'd be just about as good in the passing game. I do agree, though, that Stenavich is apparently a good O Line coach, having seen several worse ones over the years. Correct, they probably paid what they needed to pay to keep Bakhtiari, and correct, he is regarded as one of the best LTs, so I suppose he ain't overpaid. And of course, as I always say, you can almost always manipulate the cap to make things work. My issue is that LT and O Line in general is overrated in importance, for the Packers with Rodgers, at least, and I'd say results over the Rodgers years absolutely supports that.

Of course, yeah, keeping Rodgers happy is not nothing hahahaha.

[Joemailman]

Packers HOF for sure.

I don't think NFL HOF.

He's a 2-time 1st team All-Pro. That gets him in the discussion. A couple more would get him in. He's only 30 so he's got a shot.

[smuggler]

If he wins a Superb Owl, he really helps his chances, especially if it's in the short term, when he's still in the prime of his career.