12 out Vs Chefs with COVID

[Harlan Huckleby]

And then the second misconception is in how effective the vaccine is. It was never going to lead to heard immunity because it doesn’t prevent infection or spread.

That's simply untrue. No vaccine prevents infection or spread. They damp it down to some degree. A much less effective vaccine than the covid vacc could completely eliminate a virus.
The virus needs to move to a lot of hosts to survive, you just have to break some, not all, of the chains. Plus some other measures to contain a respiratory disease.

[RashanGary]

That's simply untrue. No vaccine prevents infection or spread. They damp it down to some degree. A much less effective vaccine than the covid vacc could completely eliminate a virus.
The virus needs to move to a lot of hosts to survive, you just have to break some, not all, of the chains. Plus some other measures to contain a respiratory disease.

It’s not working out very well in highly vaccinated areas like Israel or Vermont. Doesn’t seem to be breaking the chain at all

[Harlan Huckleby]

What they did with polio was remarkable though. I’m pro vaxx in some ways.

The polio vaccine in the 1950s was not that effective.
They did actual controlled study where one group got placebo vaccine. The vaccinated kids had 65% less polio.

The polio vaccine did wonderous things because it was mandatory, every kid took it. The virus was damped down over years.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1957/02/how-good-is-the-polio-vaccine/303946/

[RashanGary]

The polio, measels and mumps vaccines are considered perfect vaccines because they prevent infection and spread.

[RashanGary]

If the Covid vaccine prevented infection and spread, I would definitely get it to help out my community. Since it’s really leaky, I’ll avoid it.

[RashanGary]

Check out this guy.

https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/

[Harlan Huckleby]

Even vaccines used in largely successful disease control programmes (eg, measles, polio, or smallpox) have required high vaccine coverage, often with multiple doses, and do not lead to perfect durable immunity for all people.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30851-3/fulltext

There are no perfect vaccines. Even highly imperfect vaccines are important for fighting disease.

[RashanGary]

It’s important to note childhood vaccines for polio, measles, mumps, rubella and smallpox aren’t leaky; they are considered “perfect” vaccines. As such, they are in no way in danger of falling prey to this phenomenon.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous

[smuggler]

.Refusing vaccination is anti-social behavior.

Lol are you serious? Shut the fuck up Harlan.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If the Covid vaccine prevented infection and spread, I would definitely get it to help out my community. Since it’s really leaky, I’ll avoid it.

I've been reading about leaky-perfect vaccines and realize now why you bring it up: it is a topic that rages in the anti-vax community. In particular it is Joe Rogan's pet theory.

The "leaky" and "perfect" labels are terribly misleading. All vaccines and natural immunity are "leaky" on a continuum. No vaccine stops spread, they all reduce spread. Rogan says that leaky vaccines increase variants, which has been debunked.

This issue is a perfect example of cherry-picking science. Anti-vaxxers are using a 2015 paper raising concerns and ignoring all the responses.

Recent pandemics have been fought with "leaky" vaccines. The next one probably will be too. Anti-vaxxers assume you are smarter than real experts who are analyzing data with experience.

https://www.science.org/content/article/could-some-vaccines-make-diseases-more-deadly

[RashanGary]

Harlan, science is constantly getting it wrong. There is a growing mistrust.

Remember they were calling for 1% death rates for covid and that never happened.

Maybe these smart people are messing it up over and over and people are growing weary.

[RashanGary]

Trusting science is very similar to trusting religion. One study says one thing, another says another and then people are being constantly lead down wrong paths in the name of science. Even things like violence and condemnation are coming from the science crowd. It’s very weird.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I know scientific consensus has been wrong in the past. Think of nutrition. One factor to consider is the exponential growth of science, the greater sharing and cross-checking of information. 90% of all scientists are alive today. Science certainly keeps getting better - much better. Especially molecular biology. (I actually worked on software for the human genome project back in early 90s. The bits I learned about science back then are now nothing. I worked in company of a friend who is a self-taught genius in genetics/molecular biology, he started as largely self-taught genius in computer algorithms. He sez the science has gone through revolution in his lifetime, not just evolved. .)

There will be more pandemics in your lifetime, and they will likely be fought with "leaky" vaccines. You are signing up for a lifetime of thinking you are smarter than world's experts.


PhD’s Granted: The benefit of using the PhD as the yardstick for number of scientists is that it has a more standard definition across countries than measures such as the number of professional researchers and engineers.

https://futureoflife.org/2015/11/05/90-of-all-the-scientists-that-ever-lived-are-alive-today/

[RashanGary]

Harlan,

Just a little over a year ago they had limited Covid tests so were using them primarily on the hospitalized. 1% of those who tested positive were dying with Covid. But when you’re only testing the severely ill parts of the population you’re going to get different numbers than if you were testing healthier people too.

I said at the time that the 1% would never hold up. Scientists were on the media circuits saying 1% would die but a little common sense could see right through it.

It’s not being all that smart. It’s just being reasonable. Some of this so called science is unreasonable. And that’s where you start getting regular people not buying in.

See Israel and highly vaxed areas getting just as much Covid. It doesn’t add up. It’s not being smarter than the world, it’s basic common sense.

[RashanGary]

For whatever reason, I’m hearing a lot of negative affects from the booster. Maybe the body responds worse after several doses.

It’s too early to say getting these shots is the right move. Nothing wrong with a little caution.