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  • Coaches on the Hot Seat

    Well, I don't follow the NFL quite like I used to do, so I'll start this thread and let others fill in the gaps.

    I'll start with the only division with which I am really familiar: the ol' NFC North, once known as the NFC Central. This geographical change in designation is not ahistorical: Michigan, Wisconsin, and environs were once call "the western territory" until railroads opened up things farther west, thus changing the moniker to "the midwest."

    And in that midwest, it looks like Matt Nagy is a walking ghost. Surely Ryan Pace will can him at season's end so he can have a scapegoat for what have been some mighty whiffs on the GM's part. I'm sure Pace is also hoping people will not notice that he was the one that hired Nagy in the first place . . . No worries for Bears' fans, though. Pace can easily re-stock the cupboard with his five picks in the 2022 draft - though he'll have to do so without a first- and a fourth- round pick.

    Sheesh. After writing that, seems like they oughta can Pace first and foremost...

    On to Minnesota. I have not seen too much about Mike Zimmer's future, but at this point, the guy's been there forever - this is his eighth year - and what does he have to show for it? There always seem to be preseason rumblings that the rough-and-tough Vikes will be extra tough this year, but the team in fact seems to be on the downswing. Spielman, the GM, also somehows seems to get a lot of credit for his draft acumen, but what has he to show for all of that? Still, he seems to be on safe ground somehow. Maybe he'll can Zimmer and be the GM that uses the coach he hired as a scapegoat for his failures. As for Zimmer, the big question is whether, in the context of Viking history, he's better or worse than Denny Green was. Seems like Denny had a bit more success, though I could be wrong there.

    Probably Dan Campbell in Detroit gets a pass, as they have less NFL talent there than the universities of Georgia or Alabama do. However, he makes some really, really weird decisions, and his kooky personality, that "he's-hard-nosed-and-tells-it-like-it-is" thing that so many fans seem to adore in their team's coach, may be wearing a bit thin. Still, he'll likely be back next year, though I imagine the team will have to show some pretty serious improvement, or he might end up as the guy that presided over the rebuild so the next coach could come in and look good. We'll see. Perhaps he should take a page from the Matt Patricia playbook and suck up to the team's new(ish) owner, Sheila Ford. Maybe sending her a picture of himself in nothing but his crocs will buy him some time, depending on how big of a man she thinks he is.

    Elsewhere in the NFL, I'm not sure who's who or what's what. I'd imagine Urban Meyer is simply twisting in the wind until the season mercifully ends, and he can then be fired so as to be free to go back to Ohio and visit that sweet twenty-something "family" member he was hugging from behind. And maybe Pete Carroll's act in Seattle has finally worn too thin. He's like McCarthy was in Green Bay - his shelf life may be over after a good initial run.
    "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

    KYPack

  • #2
    I started a thread on this recently, but didn't get much response. Here's what I had.

    Matt Nagy - Bears: After a 12-4 season in 2018, Bears have gone 8-8, 8-8 and 3-7. The guy who was supposed to bring the Andy Reid offense to Chicago has had some of the NFL's worst offenses. There are rumors Nagy will be canned after Thanksgiving game.

    Joe Judge - Giants: 6-10 in 2020, 3-7 in 2021. Giants haven't had a winning record since 2015. Not sure how much patience they will have.

    Brian Flores - Dolphins: 5-11 in 2019, 10-6 in 2020, 4-7 in 2021. The team regressing in his 3rd year could put him in trouble.

    Urban Meyer - Jaguars: Had had some off field issues as well as a 2-8 record. Will ownership decide they've made a mistake and cut their losses?

    Rich Bisaccia - Raiders: Raiders are 2-3 under interim coach. They will probably be looking for a fresh start.

    Vic Fangio - Broncos: Broncos are 7-9, 5-11 and 5-5 under Fangio. Maybe a late season surge resulting in a playoff berth will save him.
    I didn't include Zimmer, but he could be in trouble if they finish below .500.
    I can't run no more
    With that lawless crowd
    While the killers in high places
    Say their prayers out loud
    But they've summoned, they've summoned up
    A thundercloud
    They're going to hear from me - Leonard Cohen

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    • #3
      I thought Zimmer would be gone years ago.

      I forget how many years ago it was, but he had this mutiny in the defensive backfield where the DB's did what they thought they should do instead of what was being called and were vocal about it.

      He soft-pedaled the thing which I thought was a bad sign for a guy who was supposed to be some tough as nails, hard-nosed, old-school coach.

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      • #4
        Looks like we did good not picking up Fangio as the HC.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by George Cumby View Post
          Looks like we did good not picking up Fangio as the HC.
          Well, his starting QB's have been Joe Flacco, Drew Lock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brett Rypien and Teddy Bridgewater. Maybe Elway is the one who should be fired. They'll either fire him or keep him and make a run at Rodgers, Russell Wilson or DeShaun Watson.

          But Fangio will probably finish this season with another losing record. Their remaining schedule is Detroit, Cincinnati, @ Las Vegas, @ LA CHargers, Kansas City.
          I can't run no more
          With that lawless crowd
          While the killers in high places
          Say their prayers out loud
          But they've summoned, they've summoned up
          A thundercloud
          They're going to hear from me - Leonard Cohen

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Joemailman View Post
            Well, his starting QB's have been Joe Flacco, Drew Lock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brett Rypien and Teddy Bridgewater. Maybe Elway is the one who should be fired. They'll either fire him or keep him and make a run at Rodgers, Russell Wilson or DeShaun Watson.

            But Fangio will probably finish this season with another losing record. Their remaining schedule is Detroit, Cincinnati, @ Las Vegas, @ LA CHargers, Kansas City.
            In my great wisdom I thought Fangio would've been a great hire for Green Bay. But maybe his record would be different if he had Rodgers as his starter. But then again, I have no idea who his OC is or what kind of offense they run. Maybe it's not near the level of what The Flower is doing.
            "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

            KYPack

            Comment


            • #7
              I think hiring a defensive HC would be the equivalent of the organization just conceding the offense to Rodgers, which is probably not healthy. However, if we did have the positives of the offense since McCarthy's departure with Fangio's defensive influence, we probably win the NFC Championship last year.

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              • #8


                Hey, Urban - that seat looks pretty hot!
                "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

                KYPack

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fritz View Post


                  Hey, Urban - that seat looks pretty hot!
                  Urb is a legend
                  Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Campbell reminds me of that guy several years ago in Cleveland - he won 1 game in two years, but so many commentators said "but he's such a good coach". To a great extent, it's the players, not the coach that differentiates winning teams from losing teams, but there are plenty of teams, especially chronic losers, where you have to wonder if a lot of it isn't on the coach.

                    As for that list, Flores has had the Dolphins snap back nicely. I doubt he goes. Carroll too - I hate the guy, but he seems to do more with less than a lot of coaches. Culley of Houston certainly ought to be on the list. Stefanski of Cleveland and Smith of Atlanta also both seem to be in that category of not succeeding to the level of the talent they have to work with. You could even say that about McCarthy in Dallas.
                    What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?

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                    • #11
                      Hue Jackson? He was legitimately a good motivator, but he was a hideously bad organizational leader, which is a big part out of what you want from a HC.

                      He wasn't much of an Xs and Os guy, either. He was at his best as a positional coach, but once you ascend to HC, that's a hard pill to swallow.

                      Pettine was a better HC than Hue Jackson. Worlds better. But it takes a pretty special HC to generate success in Cleveland.

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                      • #12
                        Good post, Smuggler. I would agree that being a head coach is really about leading an organization and being able to delegate. LeFleur seems comfortable enough with himself to let his coaches have some free rein, though he also isn't afraid to step in if he thinks things are fucked up (he did so once or twice with Pettine and now with Barry earlier in the season). I don't know if he's giving Maurice Drayton as ass-chewing behind the scenes, but I hope so.

                        Still, part of being that organizational leader is having some creativity, too - like Bretsky's hero, Hoody G., or Holmgren when he first came to Green Bay. But yeah, just being a tough-guy motivator like Jackson or Mike Singletary doesn't carry you too far.
                        "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

                        KYPack

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bottom line is winning is all about the players. Losing maybe can be blamed on coaches. No matter how great a coach is, there is a rigid ceiling. However, a rotten coach can lose big time even with quality players.
                          What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?

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                          • #14
                            I think Zimmer is gone. As is Fangio. Which sucks cuz we just hired Barry and I've been waiting on those 2 forever. But Barry has been good so I guess its ok. Weird. I also was crushed when Leonard didn't take the job. Maybe things work out.
                            The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince Lombardi

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by texaspackerbacker View Post
                              Bottom line is winning is all about the players. Losing maybe can be blamed on coaches. No matter how great a coach is, there is a rigid ceiling. However, a rotten coach can lose big time even with quality players.
                              Coaching matters a lot tex. Our OLB room is defined by the coach. Our OL isn't great, but down Bak, Jenkins, and Meyers it should be a tire fire. Yea, I know, its all Rodgers.

                              Just look at the fact that the best QB in the rookie class is on the best coached team. Coincidence?
                              The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince Lombardi

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