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  • #106
    Originally posted by pbmax View Post
    Can you paste that with headers as CODE so I can get it into Excel?

    Code:
    here
    I think that would take longer than cutting-and-pasting manually into excel. This forum's interface is pretty shit.

    Comment

    • #107
      Code:
      Lions 54.8 33
Raiders 48.5 41
Cowboys 60.8 49
Broncos 52.2 54
Jaguars 62.7 56
Bears 41.2 57
Texans 43.8 57
Comm. 36.5 58
Saints 57.8 67
Dolphins 47.1 72
Bengals 57.1 74
Steelers 39.2 74
Patriots 42.9 76
Bucs 69.4 77
Seahawks 52.2 79
Cardinals 38.5 79
Panthers 35.3 83
Colts 56.5 88
Jets 47.2 88
Giants 45.8 90
Chiefs 57.5 91
Packers 57.8 92
Rams 66.7 92
Chargers 50.8 95
Browns 44.8 97
Eagles 47.8 101
Bills 62.7 105
Falcons 39.4 109
Ravens 74.1 117
Titans 47.1 119
Vikings 45.5 122
49ers 48 125

      Comment

      • #108
        Fuck it, fire Bitchsaccia
        The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince Lombardi

        Comment

        • #109
          OK, lets try this, if possible, with the average age of the team. Trying to get at the Packers reluctantance to sign vets to perform special teams duty under Draft and Develop. Meaning, the entire roster is usually draft and develop. Not sure if this is enough data to run a regression for two variables (or even if its possible), but let's see if both drafted players and youth get us closer to my contention.

          Code:
          Team	Draft %	ST Score	Avg Age 2025
49ers	48	125	26.3
Bears	41.2	57	26.23
Bengals	57.1	74	25.77
Bills	62.7	105	26.25
Broncos	52.2	54	26.43
Browns	44.8	97	26.15
Buccaneers	69.4	77	26.25
Cardinals	38.5	79	26.19
Chargers	50.8	95	25.91
Chiefs	57.5	91	25.92
Colts	56.5	88	26.26
Commanders	36.5	58	28.09
Cowboys	60.8	49	25.74
Dolphins	47.1	72	26
Eagles	47.8	101	25.49
Falcons	39.4	109	26.71
Giants	45.8	90	26.58
Jaguars	62.7	56	26.04
Jets	47.2	88	25.81
Lions	54.8	33	26.6
Packers	57.8	92	25.23
Panthers	35.3	83	26.32
Patriots	42.9	76	26.08
Raiders	48.5	41	26.11
Rams	66.7	92	26.38
Ravens	74.1	117	26.13
Saints	57.8	67	26.26
Seahawks	52.2	79	25.77
Steelers	39.2	74	27.28
Texans	43.8	57	26.38
Titans	47.1	119	26.58
Vikings	45.5	122	26.4
          Ideally we'd look at either the age of the ST or the age of the backend of the roster, but I don't know a way to do that without just hand sorting the entire league player by player.
          Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

          Comment

          • #110
            Originally posted by pbmax View Post
            OK, lets try this, if possible, with the average age of the team. Trying to get at the Packers reluctantance to sign vets to perform special teams duty under Draft and Develop. Meaning, the entire roster is usually draft and develop. Not sure if this is enough data to run a regression for two variables (or even if its possible), but let's see if both drafted players and youth get us closer to my contention.

            Code:
            Team	Draft %	ST Score	Avg Age 2025
49ers	48	125	26.3
Bears	41.2	57	26.23
Bengals	57.1	74	25.77
Bills	62.7	105	26.25
Broncos	52.2	54	26.43
Browns	44.8	97	26.15
Buccaneers	69.4	77	26.25
Cardinals	38.5	79	26.19
Chargers	50.8	95	25.91
Chiefs	57.5	91	25.92
Colts	56.5	88	26.26
Commanders	36.5	58	28.09
Cowboys	60.8	49	25.74
Dolphins	47.1	72	26
Eagles	47.8	101	25.49
Falcons	39.4	109	26.71
Giants	45.8	90	26.58
Jaguars	62.7	56	26.04
Jets	47.2	88	25.81
Lions	54.8	33	26.6
Packers	57.8	92	25.23
Panthers	35.3	83	26.32
Patriots	42.9	76	26.08
Raiders	48.5	41	26.11
Rams	66.7	92	26.38
Ravens	74.1	117	26.13
Saints	57.8	67	26.26
Seahawks	52.2	79	25.77
Steelers	39.2	74	27.28
Texans	43.8	57	26.38
Titans	47.1	119	26.58
Vikings	45.5	122	26.4
            Ideally we'd look at either the age of the ST or the age of the backend of the roster, but I don't know a way to do that without just hand sorting the entire league player by player.
            Is the hypothesis age of player or draft and develop correlation with special teams results? I don't understand why it would be both.
            Last edited by sharpe1027; 10-24-2025, 05:34 PM.

            Comment

            • #111
              Originally posted by sharpe1027 View Post
              Is the hypothesis age of player or draft and develop correlation with special teams results? I don't understand why it would be both.
              Draft and develop can’t fill the entire roster. No one is at 100% draftees. So you are signing free agents at some point. Maybe young, maybe off the street, maybe top of the line or in between.

              Trying to get at the circumstance where Brant Banks is your next man up. So the data I gave you covers the age of the roster.

              So if you are draft and develop AND have a young roster your ST will suffer without starters. I’d love to just have the age of the STeamers, but I’m not crawling through 32 rosters to dig it out.
              Last edited by pbmax; 10-24-2025, 08:57 PM.
              Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

              Comment

              • #112
                Originally posted by pbmax View Post
                Draft and develop can’t fill the entire roster. No one is at 100% draftees. So you are signing free agents at some point. Maybe young, maybe off the street, maybe top of the line or in between.

                Trying to get at the circumstance where Brant Banks is your next man up. So the data I gave you covers the age of the roster.

                So if you are draft and develop AND have a young roster your ST will suffer without starters. I’d love to just have the age of the STeamers, but I’m not crawling through 32 rosters to dig it out.
                Hmm. Wouldn't that theory just rely on age? Why does it matter that a player was drafted elsewhere when he's got five years of experience? I guess we can see what the data says rather than prejudge.

                Comment

                • #113
                  Originally posted by sharpe1027 View Post
                  Hmm. Wouldn't that theory just rely on age? Why does it matter that a player was drafted elsewhere when he's got five years of experience? I guess we can see what the data says rather than prejudge.
                  I thought I'd go in a different direction entirely, so I looked up - tried to look up - the special teams rankings of the past ten Super Bowl winners. I was wondering, well, how important ARE good special teams to winning a Superb Owl?

                  All I can find is the following chart, which is from PFF but somehow goes only from 2006 - 2015:



                  As you can see, only three of the ten SB teams from that decade ranked in the bottom half of special teams in the NFL for their respective SB-winning seasons. One of those of course was the Packer team of 2010. Five of the SB winners were in the top ten of the special teams rankings. The other two were average.

                  Make of this what you will. I don't have the time to see if the poorly-ranked ST SB winners had highly ranked offenses AND defenses in order to make up for the shit special teams.
                  "The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."

                  KYPack

                  Comment

                  • #114
                    Originally posted by sharpe1027 View Post
                    Hmm. Wouldn't that theory just rely on age? Why does it matter that a player was drafted elsewhere when he's got five years of experience? I guess we can see what the data says rather than prejudge.
                    It might just be age. Or it may simply be that using age to approximate experience on special teams is a bad fudge. Its also likely not the entire story.

                    Even in the first year, when Gute brought in some of Bisaccia's guys the ST were bad. But unlike todday, the Packers had trouble with the specialists (Punter and kicker were in flux) but there likely isn't a single silver bullet here.

                    Its also possible that Mosqueda's point is basically right. If you go backup on ST and then don't practice more than typical, you increase the chances of disaster. The Packers never planned to have Brant Banks block on FGs, but the failure to imagine he could have to leaves the margins on ST rail thin.
                    Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

                    Comment

                    • #115
                      Originally posted by Fritz View Post
                      I thought I'd go in a different direction entirely, so I looked up - tried to look up - the special teams rankings of the past ten Super Bowl winners. I was wondering, well, how important ARE good special teams to winning a Superb Owl?

                      All I can find is the following chart, which is from PFF but somehow goes only from 2006 - 2015:



                      As you can see, only three of the ten SB teams from that decade ranked in the bottom half of special teams in the NFL for their respective SB-winning seasons. One of those of course was the Packer team of 2010. Five of the SB winners were in the top ten of the special teams rankings. The other two were average.

                      Make of this what you will. I don't have the time to see if the poorly-ranked ST SB winners had highly ranked offenses AND defenses in order to make up for the shit special teams.
                      It doesn't surprise me it bounces around. Some teams dominate on O or D. But if I were planning for the season, I would want the ST at least near average so as not to make the O and D work even harder.
                      Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

                      Comment

                      • #116
                        Originally posted by Fritz View Post
                        I thought I'd go in a different direction entirely, so I looked up - tried to look up - the special teams rankings of the past ten Super Bowl winners. I was wondering, well, how important ARE good special teams to winning a Superb Owl?

                        All I can find is the following chart, which is from PFF but somehow goes only from 2006 - 2015:



                        As you can see, only three of the ten SB teams from that decade ranked in the bottom half of special teams in the NFL for their respective SB-winning seasons. One of those of course was the Packer team of 2010. Five of the SB winners were in the top ten of the special teams rankings. The other two were average.

                        Make of this what you will. I don't have the time to see if the poorly-ranked ST SB winners had highly ranked offenses AND defenses in order to make up for the shit special teams.
                        What I see is that if you don't have a top defense then you better have a top ST and vice versa.
                        The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince Lombardi

                        Comment

                        • #117
                          I always use the metric that 10 yards costs you a point. Doesn’t matter if it is in special teams or a penalty.

                          Bad special teams can cost you 50 yards a game and in a close contest that can be the difference.
                          But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.

                          -Tim Harmston

                          Comment

                          • #118
                            So let’s see in one half vs the Steelers that might cost us the game…

                            We muffed/recovered a punt, missed 2 fg’s, made a bad read on the last kickoff.

                            Why do we suck so bad?
                            The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have.
                            Vince Lombardi

                            "Not really interested in being a spoiler or an underdog. We're the Green Bay Packers." McCarthy.

                            Comment

                            • #119
                              Hard to pin that on ST when offense just was making mistakes and missing a lot of talent.

                              But a bad snap? Really…
                              The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have.
                              Vince Lombardi

                              "Not really interested in being a spoiler or an underdog. We're the Green Bay Packers." McCarthy.

                              Comment

                              • #120
                                Originally posted by Fosco33 View Post
                                Hard to pin that on ST when offense just was making mistakes and missing a lot of talent.

                                But a bad snap? Really…
                                It looked like someone got a mitt on it?
                                Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

                                Comment

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