Official Packers 2024 OTA/Minicamp Thread

[sharpe1027]

According to ESPN's Rob Demovsky, Watson had a 20 percent difference in muscle mass between his two legs back in 2021. The gap is now just 8-10 percent.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...tring-injuries

[Joemailman]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...tring-injuries

No. I think Bleacher Report misquoted Demovsky's article. What Demovsky reported was:

The key for Watson, he discovered, is symmetry. That was chief among the things he learned during eight hours of testing this offseason at the University of Wisconsin's School of Medicine and Public Health. Tests showed a muscle imbalance in his legs, which likely contributed to his problems. He has missed 11 games during his first two seasons, including eight last season, because of a pulled hamstring in his right leg.

The confusion may be based on this:

Shortly after Watson's visit to UW, which in 2021 was given a $4 million grant by the NFL to study the prevention and treatment of hamstring injuries, he had a 20% difference in muscle strength between his right and left legs. Now, he says it's between 8% and 10%.

[sharpe1027]

No. I think Bleacher Report misquoted Demovsky's article. What Demovsky reported was:



The confusion may be based on this:

That seems likely. I didn't realize the messed up, but thanks for the good catch.

The experts stated the imbalance likely contributed to his problems. I'm inclined to believe they know their chicken and eggs better than most.

[RashanGary]

Player has repeat hamstring injuries. Top experts studying hamstring injuries assess the player and identity muscle imbalance they believe is contributing to the injuries. They develop a plan to reduce the chances of a future injury.

Someone on PRs forum explains why they don't believe the experts and it's more likely the hamstring injuries caused the imbalance. They aren't an expert, but they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Never fails.

Sorry to argue with you again, man

"For me, it really was the asymmetry between the legs," Watson explained this week after an OTA practice. "It comes from a lot of things. Obviously, the issues I've had in the past with hamstrings, not fully recovering from those strength-wise. I've been attacking the strength side of it, trying to get that symmetry back and it's been huge for me. I feel really, really good. I gotta continue grinding at it."

There is no possible way in the world, no matter how great one’s imagination to assume the professionals who never observed him in 2022 could know what factors likely lead to his first injury. Watson himself, speaking from a place of sharing the insight he got from UW Madison
says that the strength is down, at least in part, if not mostly, from not fully recovering from the original injuries.

Tex is more right, on a hunch, than you were after either not listening to Watson speak and getting your info from a headline or from not comprehending what he actually said.

Tex is right and he also stayed at a holiday inn.

Tex, the asymmetry we’re talking about here is in strength, not mass. But excellent hypothesis. It lines right up with the experts.

[Fosco33]

So do summarize it’s either:
Sven, the 13yr old Viking fan who has a penchant for the occult putting a curse on the hammie
Nothing to do with muscles
Strength difference
Muscles mass imbalance

Certainly no one is ‘right’ - except perhaps Sven

[RashanGary]

I know we’re all big fucking retards every time we think for ourselves or try to piece together possible reasons for how things unfolded. So by all means disregard what i say here as me being an untethered retard who bit through his leash.

But Watsons dad has a podcast and regular presence on X. He’s been going on about several rookies injuries and saying the training for the combine causes problems for their health when they play actual football. He didn’t specifically mention his son. But it is possible to consider that, at least partially, he believes his son’s initial injury happened because his combine training made his body more prone to injury.

After the initial injury, using Watson’s words, we can also consider it possible that reinjury happened probably from asymmetry.

I’m also not an expert, but I did stay at a holiday inn.

[sharpe1027]

Sorry to argue with you again, man

"For me, it really was the asymmetry between the legs," Watson explained this week after an OTA practice. "It comes from a lot of things. Obviously, the issues I've had in the past with hamstrings, not fully recovering from those strength-wise. I've been attacking the strength side of it, trying to get that symmetry back and it's been huge for me. I feel really, really good. I gotta continue grinding at it."

There is no possible way in the world, no matter how great one’s imagination to assume the professionals who never observed him in 2022 could know what factors likely lead to his first injury. Watson himself, speaking from a place of sharing the insight he got from UW Madison
says that the strength is down, at least in part, if not mostly, from not fully recovering from the original injuries.

Tex is more right, on a hunch, than you were after either not listening to Watson speak and getting your info from a headline or from not comprehending what he actually said.

Tex is right and he also stayed at a holiday inn.

Tex, the asymmetry we’re talking about here is in strength, not mass. But excellent hypothesis. It lines right up with the experts.

This doesn't make sense. He goes to the leading specialist in the field to figure out why he's having issues. They run eight hours of tests and conclude that muscle imbalance is the most important issue.

Now, I'm not saying the injuries did not contribute to his imbalance, that's impossible for me to know. I am saying the specialist aren't likely to be complete morons and diagnose the reason for his past problems based on a condition that likely didn't exist until after he had his latest problems.

I guess it's possible that the leading experts are that fucking stupid, but it seems really really unlikely.

You can believe whatever you want, but I don't think there's any chance you're going to convince me otherwise based solely on your assessment from reading a headline and diagnosing from your couch.

[RashanGary]

This doesn't make sense. He goes to the leading specialist in the field to figure out why he's having issues. They run eight hours of tests and conclude that muscle imbalance is the most important issue.

Now, I'm not saying the injuries did not contribute to his imbalance, that's impossible for me to know. I am saying the specialist aren't likely to be complete morons and diagnose the reason for his past problems based on a condition that likely didn't exist until after he had his latest problems.

I guess it's possible that the leading experts are that fucking stupid, but it seems really really unlikely.

You can believe whatever you want, but I don't think there's any chance you're going to convince me otherwise based solely on your assessment from reading a headline and diagnosing from your coach.

Bro, nothing Watson shared made reference to his initial injury. All he talked about is asymmetry and the only factor he listed relating to asymmetry was previous injury.

This is a comprehension problem on your part, not anyone trying to override experts opinions.

[sharpe1027]

Bro, nothing Watson shared made reference to his initial injury. All he talked about is asymmetry and the only factor he listed relating to asymmetry was previous injury.

This is a comprehension problem on your part, not anyone trying to override experts opinions.

No it's not . It's an overconfidence issue on your part.

The Packers paid for all that testing because he was having reoccurring issues. It's only natural to assume the medical experts know the difference between pre and post injury issues.The article said the experts believe the imbalance was a contributing factor in his injuries. I'm pretty sure that means they think the imbalance existed prior to those injuries.

[sharpe1027]

It's as simple as the experts identified muscle imbalance as a likely contributing factor in his previous injury. Assuming they understand which way time flows, they believe a muscle imbalance existed before the injuries occured.

Secondarily, between the medical experts and some dude posting on the Internet,

Who had access prior medical records?
Who had access to Watson to obtain information on his training and recovery process?
Who had direct physical access to Watson and was able to perform eight hours of testing (that's a lot)?
Who is more likely to understand the progression and root cause of a muscle imbalance?
Who is more likely to be over confident in themselves?

[ThunderDan]

No it's not . It's an overconfidence issue on your part.

The Packers paid for all that testing because he was having reoccurring issues. It's only natural to assume the medical experts know the difference between pre and post injury issues.The article said the experts believe the imbalance was a contributing factor in his injuries. I'm pretty sure that means they think the imbalance existed prior to those injuries.

I played a ton of basketball in HS and college. Tried to walk on to the Badgers when Yoder was the coach and didn’t make it.

I blew my right ankle apart playing rec ball in college when someone pushed me from behind going for a rebound. I wasn’t allowed to put any weight on it for 2 weeks and had crutches for 8.

When I finally was able to get to rehab, the strength in my right ankle was at 60% of my left ankle. They made me run the test twice they were so surprised. It turns out jumping off the same leg for 12 years creates a huge imbalance. When I finished rehab and retested my right side was 175% as strong as my left 16 weeks post injury.

[sharpe1027]

I played a ton of basketball in HS and college. Tried to walk on to the Badgers when Yoder was the coach and didn’t make it.

I blew my right ankle apart playing rec ball in college when someone pushed me from behind going for a rebound. I wasn’t allowed to put any weight on it for 2 weeks and had crutches for 8.

When I finally was able to get to rehab, the strength in my right ankle was at 60% of my left ankle. They made me run the test twice they were so surprised. It turns out jumping off the same leg for 12 years creates a huge imbalance. When I finished rehab and retested my right side was 175% as strong as my left 16 weeks post injury.

Yes. My point is not that injuries cannot create muscle imbalance, it's simply this. A muscle imbalance cannot be a contributing factor in an injury that occurred prior to the muscle imbalance AND experts in the field know this.

[RashanGary]

Sharpe, your conclusion that the imbalance was speaking about the initial injury as well as the two year reinjuries is a pretty big assumption when considering the context.

It’s not crazy or being an ignorant know it all, but no more is tex being an ignoramus by saying the imbalance during testing probably had to do with previous injuries.

The whole “but I did stay at a holiday inn” comment is condescending and smug. Tex makes a ton of sense in a lot of areas most people have huge mental road blocks. He goes way off in other areas in my opinion. But Tex had an incredibly unique and valuable view point and to look down your nose at him is kind of ignorant imho.

There’s been no one here who I’ve disagreed with more often and more vehemently than Tex. But there’s no one who’s opened my eyes to things I couldn’t see more than tex either. I don’t think you’d want him being a dictator of anything, but there aren’t many Tex’s in the world and his viewpoint brings a lot to the table of mostly like minded people.

[Joemailman]

Whatever the case, it appears the now replaced strength and conditioning team had no idea of the strength imbalance in Watson's legs. Or allowed him to play despite it. Stokes reinjured his hamstring after playing 4 plays his 1st game back. Makes me wonder if Bakhtiari's ongoing knee problems had something to do with a substandard strength and conditioning regimen.

[sharpe1027]

Tex has more than earned condescending remarks. He's a complete asshole to people calling them all sorts of names. Don't cry to me about "smug" remarks aimed at him. I don't give a shit.

I didn't distinguish between any of the specific injuries. It is possible the first hamstring injury was random and the imbalance only occured then This is about diagnosing why he has reoccurring injuries.

It's also possible he's had an imbalance dating back many years. None of us know.