Packer Rats Winners and Losers of GB VS NO

[KYPack]

I think of the KEY Losers is Bob Sanders. Apart from the individual play of a couple players, I felt his game calling was terrible. In the first quarter of the game, the defense was on the field for a LONG time. That tells me that they would get tired....sure enough, in the third and fourth quarters, we could get a consistent pass rush....why not blitz? Sure he did some times, but what really gets me is the 3rd down conversion rate in the second half for the Saints. I recall several time where it was third and long(greater than 6 yards) and the Packers rushed only 4 guys...I don't care who your DB's are, if the other QB has more than 4 seconds to throw the ball, I'll bet you he will complete it. Granted, in the first half we were able to get pressure with our front 4, but as I stated earlier, the D was on the field for a long time. Ever hear of "in game adjustments"? Why can't we send 5-6 guys every time? That still gives us 5-6 players to either play the zone or man-up? Were we playing against Mike Vick?

If your defensive pressure requires consistent blitzing, you are gonna get beat like a drum. When you blitz, you are covering up a weakness. You must have pressure on the QB thru the down 4 with occaisional help from a 5th pass rusher. If you always send 5 and sometimes send 6, you will be gashed far more than you will ever succeed.

A 5 or 6 man zone has such huge holes in it, the pressure will never yield a sack before the offense burns it a big gain.

If blitzing was a magic elixer, all NFL DC's would blitz way more than they do. They don't, 'cause blitzin' gets ya beat.

Tell that to Jim Johnson of the Philadelphia Eagles.

That's with a vet defense that can supply pressure from the down 4. The rest of that "D" is experienced and knows what to do on the blitz. Also, Johnson doesn't blitz as much as you think. I repeat, blitzing isn't the magic wand to supply QB pressure.

Blitzing is a helluva tactic, but it has to be used properly. Lebeau and Jonson both blitz, but not as much as you think.

[Patler]

I agree about Ryan. I feel the same way about Rayner. Might as well let them develop on this team.

Rayner had as many touchbacks in this game as Ryan Longwell has had in an entire season since his first year or two in the league. Plus, he had two others that went 2-3 yards deep in the endzone that were returned. He has a big leg.

Yup, quite the surprise that guy Rayner. I think Rayner might struggle with his FGs this season but shoot, that kid has a HUGE LEG! I think we have Neil Rackers type of kicker on our hands. Let him develop. As for P Ryan, well, better hang time & we've got a keeper for ages. Let him play this year and enter next camp with competition - he should be better but it's not a given.

Rayner does have a good strong leg, but before everyone gets too carried away, just remember that 42 year-old John Carney also had two touchbacks and another to the endzone that was carried out. I also believe that all the kicks to the endzone by both kickers were in the same direction, and that neither reached the endzone in the other direction. I suspect the wind was a factor on Sunday too.

[cpk1994]

I think of the KEY Losers is Bob Sanders. Apart from the individual play of a couple players, I felt his game calling was terrible. In the first quarter of the game, the defense was on the field for a LONG time. That tells me that they would get tired....sure enough, in the third and fourth quarters, we could get a consistent pass rush....why not blitz? Sure he did some times, but what really gets me is the 3rd down conversion rate in the second half for the Saints. I recall several time where it was third and long(greater than 6 yards) and the Packers rushed only 4 guys...I don't care who your DB's are, if the other QB has more than 4 seconds to throw the ball, I'll bet you he will complete it. Granted, in the first half we were able to get pressure with our front 4, but as I stated earlier, the D was on the field for a long time. Ever hear of "in game adjustments"? Why can't we send 5-6 guys every time? That still gives us 5-6 players to either play the zone or man-up? Were we playing against Mike Vick?

If your defensive pressure requires consistent blitzing, you are gonna get beat like a drum. When you blitz, you are covering up a weakness. You must have pressure on the QB thru the down 4 with occaisional help from a 5th pass rusher. If you always send 5 and sometimes send 6, you will be gashed far more than you will ever succeed.

A 5 or 6 man zone has such huge holes in it, the pressure will never yield a sack before the offense burns it a big gain.

If blitzing was a magic elixer, all NFL DC's would blitz way more than they do. They don't, 'cause blitzin' gets ya beat.

How soon people around here forget Bob "Blitz Happy" Slowik around here, huh?

[cpk1994]

I agree about Ryan. I feel the same way about Rayner. Might as well let them develop on this team.

Rayner had as many touchbacks in this game as Ryan Longwell has had in an entire season since his first year or two in the league. Plus, he had two others that went 2-3 yards deep in the endzone that were returned. He has a big leg.

Yup, quite the surprise that guy Rayner. I think Rayner might struggle with his FGs this season but shoot, that kid has a HUGE LEG! I think we have Neil Rackers type of kicker on our hands. Let him develop. As for P Ryan, well, better hang time & we've got a keeper for ages. Let him play this year and enter next camp with competition - he should be better but it's not a given.

Rayner does have a good strong leg, but before everyone gets too carried away, just remember that 42 year-old John Carney also had two touchbacks and another to the endzone that was carried out. I also believe that all the kicks to the endzone by both kickers were in the same direction, and that neither reached the endzone in the other direction. I suspect the wind was a factor on Sunday too.

Well, Ryan Longwell couldn't get to the endzone even with the wind so we are ahead in that area

[mission]

what is raynor's story? where's he from, how old is he?

could end up ok ..

[Rastak]

I agree about Ryan. I feel the same way about Rayner. Might as well let them develop on this team.

Rayner had as many touchbacks in this game as Ryan Longwell has had in an entire season since his first year or two in the league. Plus, he had two others that went 2-3 yards deep in the endzone that were returned. He has a big leg.

Yup, quite the surprise that guy Rayner. I think Rayner might struggle with his FGs this season but shoot, that kid has a HUGE LEG! I think we have Neil Rackers type of kicker on our hands. Let him develop. As for P Ryan, well, better hang time & we've got a keeper for ages. Let him play this year and enter next camp with competition - he should be better but it's not a given.

Rayner does have a good strong leg, but before everyone gets too carried away, just remember that 42 year-old John Carney also had two touchbacks and another to the endzone that was carried out. I also believe that all the kicks to the endzone by both kickers were in the same direction, and that neither reached the endzone in the other direction. I suspect the wind was a factor on Sunday too.

Well, Ryan Longwell couldn't get to the endzone even with the wind so we are ahead in that area

Ah, but how many TD's did Rayner throw?

[Patler]

I agree about Ryan. I feel the same way about Rayner. Might as well let them develop on this team.

Rayner had as many touchbacks in this game as Ryan Longwell has had in an entire season since his first year or two in the league. Plus, he had two others that went 2-3 yards deep in the endzone that were returned. He has a big leg.

Yup, quite the surprise that guy Rayner. I think Rayner might struggle with his FGs this season but shoot, that kid has a HUGE LEG! I think we have Neil Rackers type of kicker on our hands. Let him develop. As for P Ryan, well, better hang time & we've got a keeper for ages. Let him play this year and enter next camp with competition - he should be better but it's not a given.

Rayner does have a good strong leg, but before everyone gets too carried away, just remember that 42 year-old John Carney also had two touchbacks and another to the endzone that was carried out. I also believe that all the kicks to the endzone by both kickers were in the same direction, and that neither reached the endzone in the other direction. I suspect the wind was a factor on Sunday too.

Well, Ryan Longwell couldn't get to the endzone even with the wind so we are ahead in that area

Ah, but how many TD's did Rayner throw?

For his career, which has been far shorter than Longwell's, he is only one behind Longwell in TD passes!

[Rastak]

Good point Patler!

[mmmdk]

I agree about Ryan. I feel the same way about Rayner. Might as well let them develop on this team.

Rayner had as many touchbacks in this game as Ryan Longwell has had in an entire season since his first year or two in the league. Plus, he had two others that went 2-3 yards deep in the endzone that were returned. He has a big leg.

Yup, quite the surprise that guy Rayner. I think Rayner might struggle with his FGs this season but shoot, that kid has a HUGE LEG! I think we have Neil Rackers type of kicker on our hands. Let him develop. As for P Ryan, well, better hang time & we've got a keeper for ages. Let him play this year and enter next camp with competition - he should be better but it's not a given.

Rayner does have a good strong leg, but before everyone gets too carried away, just remember that 42 year-old John Carney also had two touchbacks and another to the endzone that was carried out. I also believe that all the kicks to the endzone by both kickers were in the same direction, and that neither reached the endzone in the other direction. I suspect the wind was a factor on Sunday too.

Well, Ryan Longwell couldn't get to the endzone even with the wind so we are ahead in that area

Ah, but how many TD's did Rayner throw?

For his career, which has been far shorter than Longwell's, he is only one behind Longwell in TD passes!

Back to touchback theme. So what you're saying, Patler, is that Longwell never had the wind in his back on kickoffs???

[mmmdk]

Or was it cpk1994 who said it!?

[MJZiggy]

No, I think he's saying that even with the wind, Longwell didn't kick it into the end zone deep enough to make them think about whether it was wise to run it out.

[Patler]

Back to touchback theme. So what you're saying, Patler, is that Longwell never had the wind in his back on kickoffs???

I don't believe I made any comment in this thread about Longwell, Longwell and touchbacks or Longwell and wind. I did not compare Rayner to Longwell. I did note that both Rayner and Carney reached the endzone multiple times on Sunday, but only when kicking in one direction. Neither one did when kicking in the other direction.

I think it is fairly clear that Rayner consistently kicks a longer ball than Longwell, and so far seems to get enough under it to allow the coverage team to get down field. Average length of the returns is looking good so far, such that the average net distance is very good.

[Patler]

Back to touchback theme. So what you're saying, Patler, is that Longwell never had the wind in his back on kickoffs???

I don't believe I made any comment in this thread about Longwell's kickoffs, Longwell and touchbacks or Longwell and wind. I did not compare Rayner to Longwell. I did note that both Rayner and Carney reached the endzone multiple times on Sunday, but only when kicking in one direction. Neither one did when kicking in the other direction.

I think it is fairly clear that Rayner consistently kicks a longer ball than Longwell, and so far seems to get enough under it to allow the coverage team to get down field. Average length of the returns is looking good so far, such that the average net distance is very good.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Carney had two touchbacks in 7 kicks with one other kick reaching the goalline. On the other four kicks, he got it to the 2, 4, 4, and 10. I think the point about the wind is legit--as I think Carney isn't usually that "long." However, Rayner did outkick him, and I don't think the wind was a huge factor.

Rayner had three touchbacks in 6 kicks with two other kicks going 2 and 3 yards into the endzone. I remember his first kickoff being pathetic. I'll blame it on nerves or something. Pretty impressive.

Longwell had 6 combined touchbacks in the last 3 years. Ironically, he had not had a touchback in 14 games in a Dome since at least 2000 (that's as far back as I could find his game logs). Until this last week that is--when he had one. I didn't see it, so I don't know if it was a boomer or what.