The reason behind Favre's inaccuracy...

[SkinBasket]

Re: The reason behind Favre's inaccuracy...

... is that his mechanics are getting worse and worse. it's not necessarily his decision making.

he slings the ball sidearm and it's getting really bad. any time you bring the ball low, it's going to have the tendency to rise. that's why QBs spend so much time on mechanics... given how hard balls are thrown, the nose has to be going down.

i know this thread isnt exactly bill nye the science guy and you had no clue but it just pisses me off that something so obvious isn't being worked on. yes he's a vet, but getting back to fundamentals would help so much. he's never had great mechanics but i can see an obvious slip in release point this season.

May-be you should sit down and watch yesterday's game over again and PAY ATTENTION this time! Favre had a defender in his face all game long. Pretty tough to be accurate when your on the run as he was. You guys are just amazing. Put the blame where it belongs and that's on an offensive line that can't passs block.

It's also though to be "Accurate" when your RBs and TEs and WRs drop 6-8 passes that either hit their hands or chests. Looks like Green was too busy working out those pipes to run any hands drills this past year.

[mission]

I have no problem with somebody starting a thread to talk about observations of Favre's mechanics. Ridiculous? Not at all. Maybe more ridiculous is the thinking that only 100% pro-Favre threads are welcome in the PackerRats forum. As for Favre's performance: he did pretty well under pretty heavy pressure, and suffered from a lot of drops. I felt his worse throws occurred in the last drive. For example, the 4th and 10 pass was uncatchable. It sailed over the head of Fergie, and was one of his ultra fast balls. Way too much velocity. If somebody wants to offer an opinion on what caused that type of pass I will definitely read it and determine for myself if the explanation has any merit.

You have good points. Still, Favre is not flawless, he never has been.Yes he made mistakes yesterday. But please, Favre was not the reason we lost. Favre is not the reason we lack talent. Don't blame it on youth either, blame it on lack of talent. I enjoy watching Hawk and Jennings plus I believe Rodgers has a shot at being a good NFL QB. Other than those - who brings promise? Next years draft picks do!

We ALL agree with you, bro.

Willard understands the point of this thread. Im a day late on the game topic and any observations I would have had have probably been covered already. This is something I noticed yesterday and just felt that it could be an interesting topic. Although, admittedly, it's hard to add much to it when none of has any control over it... even, probably, MM.

and skinbasket: jeez, i agree. ahman is definitely a lot more yoked this year but for what, going to the beach?!! i never remember ahman playing this poorly and i dont think quad surgery is to blame for any of it. yikes.

[Joemailman]

Re: The reason behind Favre's inaccuracy...

... is that his mechanics are getting worse and worse. it's not necessarily his decision making.

he slings the ball sidearm and it's getting really bad. any time you bring the ball low, it's going to have the tendency to rise. that's why QBs spend so much time on mechanics... given how hard balls are thrown, the nose has to be going down.

i know this thread isnt exactly bill nye the science guy and you had no clue but it just pisses me off that something so obvious isn't being worked on. yes he's a vet, but getting back to fundamentals would help so much. he's never had great mechanics but i can see an obvious slip in release point this season.

May-be you should sit down and watch yesterday's game over again and PAY ATTENTION this time! Favre had a defender in his face all game long. Pretty tough to be accurate when your on the run as he was. You guys are just amazing. Put the blame where it belongs and that's on an offensive line that can't passs block.

It's also though to be "Accurate" when your RBs and TEs and WRs drop 6-8 passes that either hit their hands or chests. Looks like Green was too busy working out those pipes to run any hands drills this past year.

Skinbasket is right. If the Packer receivers had caught just half of thee drops yesterday, Favre would have had a completion percentage of nearly 70%. Favre's mechanics aren't great, but I actually think they are better than last year. Favre's accuracy would be improved if the Packers could run the ball well enough to make play-action effective. When you have to thread the needle as much as Favre does, you are going to have some misses.

[retailguy]

Ok, Tony lets try this again....

31-55 is more than you can typically expect from most NFL qbs. He threw for 340 yards and 3 tds.

HE WAS NOT THE PROBLEM YESTERDAY. Period.

Favre's mechanics have always stunk. He's thrown how many td passes down the middle of the field off of his back foot? Huh? a hundred? Isn't that one of the things that made him great?

His decision making has always been clouded by poor judgement in critical situations. He was on a streak for a number of years where that decision succeeded more than it failed. It isn't happening anymore.

The perspective that Holmgren "controlled" him more, is, in my mind, ridiculous. The only difference between Holmgren & Sherman is that Holmgren routinely blew out his left nut sack screaming at him, and Sherman looked at his play chart.

He didn't listen to either one. He went right back out there and played the way he played.

Suggesting that I see other reasons and disagree with you, doesn't make me an extremist. If you'd quit hurling insults, grab some old tape and WATCH it, instead of seeing sidearm delivery yesterday (which has ALWAYS happened) maybe you'd see that your theory is at best incomplete, and at worst wrong.

Maybe try putting down the joint first, stop toking for a few days, and watch the tape with a clear head.

Either Superbowl appearance would work just fine. Compare his mechanics in either game to his mechanics yesterday. Not much difference. Then watch Holmgren's reactions, and compare them to McCarthy and Sherman.
There is a reason Holmgren had a heart attack. Holmgren has never been very good at "acceptance". You might mirror him in that regard.

I'll close with the following observation made by someone much smarter than I - "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". Favre is an "old dog". We got what we got, and I'm damn glad to have him.

[rbaloha1]

Believe your eyes

BF is still capable of playing @ a superstar level. Even Sterling Sharpe aknowledged this after the Saints game

MM is utilizing more of Holgrem's wco which means more receivers in routes, screens and checkdowns.

BF placed the ball in the receiver's hands (how many drops -- possibly around 10) and was accurate for the most part. BF mechanics are still the same as they were with Holgrem---terrible. This is why BF can never coach qb which he aknowledges.

BF is not the problem -- its the receivers/backs/tight ends.

[Tarlam!]

Let's cut Tony some slack here. He has repeated till puking he is in no way slagging off the starting QB.

He merely pointed out the reason he thought some balls were over thrown. Not ONCE did he say, #4 was the problem yesterday.

I did, in the game thread. So did the pro Packer radio crew - in the first half when we could NOT get a first down.

I will say, the fact that we could not get first downs kept our defense on the field too long in Quarters 2 and 3. That's when we should have sewn it up and we did not.

I put the INT SQUARELY on the play caller - M3. That was the turning point for me. We should have played run-run-run-we'll see.

But Favre was off for a vital spell and maybe it was his mechanics. And, the spell was VITAL to our loss.

[LaFours]

Re: The reason behind Favre's inaccuracy...

The guy throws for over 300 yds and 3 tds and you start a topic about a couple of bad throws. Do you have any idea of how ridiculous that is?

No, Packnut, he doesn't. He expects him to be perfect. That is what a players biggest supporter does - expects perfection.

I thought a player's biggest supporter was designed to protect their...well, you know...their family jewels.

[Noodle]

Tony may in fact be on to something. You know, MLB pitchers, even of the Randy Johnson caliber, constantly monitor for mechanics flaws and try to correct them. Or, I should say, they look for deviations from how they've done things in the past, and try to be consistent.

So why shouldn't there be a similar concern about Favre's mechnics? I think they have worsened over time. For example, he's always favored throwing off the back foot, but the mad back-pedal/back-foot combo has increased in recent years.

I didn't pick up on the low release point, but for the second straight game, Favre has missed high on some key third-down throws. I also remember him consistently missing high back in the mid-90s when we'd go down for our annual beat-down at Texas Stadium, but the excuse then was the high field crown. Not sure why he'd have a similar problem in Lambeau.

Anyway, I say good thread. Nutz has also been screaming about high throws, and I can only hope it is something that's can be corrected, like mechanics.

And BTW, Favre didn't attend any of the QB School sessions this year, to my knowledge.

[mission]

lots of good points by everyone... even you retailguy, bringing my personal vices into it, which, i think, arent that big of a deal considering my occupation and time spent at work. i get at least 90 hours a week of clearheadedness

anyway, it was a nitpicky observation. i used to spend my college summers traveling with jeff tricky, the head coach at waukesha (i wanna say waukesha west) who's renowned for his quarterback camps. now i know it's just high school level of mechanics ... and we all love brett for his gunslinging, from the hip antics. you live by the sword and die by the sword and i definitely think favre is the reason we were IN the game yesterday. not the opposite.

just something that stuck out more to me yesterday than other games. but again, after 55 passes, you'd figure a handful of them would have mechanical flaws. hell, if i ever threw 55 passes in a game, id have a lot more problems than brett did... even against a way lesser level of competition.

probably no way to correct it at this point either so ill move to my MAJOR rant...

FIRE SHITTENHEIMER!!!

[superfan]

tonytokes, thanks for the post. I think this is a great topic for discussion -- right, wrong or otherwise. It's nice to read something besides another discussion on KRo.

Regarding the drops, yes they were a bad problem Sunday, especially from Ahman. But many of them that I recall were on dumpoffs that wouldn't have amounted to much anyway. My reaction in most cases was "Catch the ball!" followed by "Oh well, only would have been a couple yards anyway". One of the things that bugged me with the old regime was the inevitable 3rd and 13 dump off to Tony Fisher for 6 yards. Seems like Sherman didn't bother to pull that page out of the playbook and take it with him as he left.

Favre -- I won't rehash what has already been said about his mechanics. What I will say is that other than his complete abhorrence of taking a sack, to me he seems to be pretty much the same player he's been for his entire career. He can still gun the laser. He still has touch on occasion, as witnessed by the beautiful Jennings TD. He still has the killer instinct, and still makes bonehead plays and incredibly wild "WTF" passes. He's definitely not the runner he once was, but he can still sidestep a rusher and throw a mean block when needed.

This may sound like sacrilege, but I've felt for some time that there came a time 7-8 years ago when Favre actually became overrated. He became so popular so fast and had so much success that suddenly everyone thought he could do no wrong. All I see is the same player making the same mistakes and the same great plays, except the mistakes are more frequent and the great plays more rare, which I think is more the fault of his supporting cast than anything else. I love Driver, and Green when healthy, but other than the possible emergence of Jennings, not much more there to like.

Which just makes me madder when those who aren't even football plans ask me why Favre hasn't retired yet and why he sucks.

Am I wrong in my assessment of Favre? Welcoming any comments.

[MJZiggy]

My deal with the dropped passes is that if you put two 6-yard dumpoffs together, you have a first down. This is why the drops became important. Especially on passes that were right on target. Once KRob gets into the system and Morency can spell Green a little bit, maybe we can stop throwing to Fergy as often.

Funny sidenote, after his touchdown catch I was thinking 'what if Ferg proves everyone wrong this game?' and then he dropped almost every pass thrown his way. Ok, not funny. Still.

[cpk1994]

Re: The reason behind Favre's inaccuracy...

... is that his mechanics are getting worse and worse. it's not necessarily his decision making.

he slings the ball sidearm and it's getting really bad. any time you bring the ball low, it's going to have the tendency to rise. that's why QBs spend so much time on mechanics... given how hard balls are thrown, the nose has to be going down.

i know this thread isnt exactly bill nye the science guy and you had no clue but it just pisses me off that something so obvious isn't being worked on. yes he's a vet, but getting back to fundamentals would help so much. he's never had great mechanics but i can see an obvious slip in release point this season.

May-be you should sit down and watch yesterday's game over again and PAY ATTENTION this time! Favre had a defender in his face all game long. Pretty tough to be accurate when your on the run as he was. You guys are just amazing. Put the blame where it belongs and that's on an offensive line that can't passs block.

that's fine but hit the open pass when he's NOT pressured.

im not trying to generalize for the game as you insinuate. i thought favre played great and i had an awesome time watching him. hell, we lost because of our inability to play cohesively in the defensive backfield.

if you read my thread, im talking about overthrowing passes... not why favre didnt have 450 yards passing or why we lost or why we need to trade favre.

dont read too far into my post.

im his biggest supporter ever and think he's easily our best talent at the position. by 4 aaron rodgers at least.

"you guys"... bah... follow along, pal.

The guy throws for over 300 yds and 3 tds and you start a topic about a couple of bad throws. Do you have any idea of how ridiculous that is?

It's not rediculous when 1 bad throw cost the pack 7 points.

[cpk1994]

Let's cut Tony some slack here. He has repeated till puking he is in no way slagging off the starting QB.

He merely pointed out the reason he thought some balls were over thrown. Not ONCE did he say, #4 was the problem yesterday.

I did, in the game thread. So did the pro Packer radio crew - in the first half when we could NOT get a first down.

I will say, the fact that we could not get first downs kept our defense on the field too long in Quarters 2 and 3. That's when we should have sewn it up and we did not.

I put the INT SQUARELY on the play caller - M3. That was the turning point for me. We should have played run-run-run-we'll see.

But Favre was off for a vital spell and maybe it was his mechanics. And, the spell was VITAL to our loss.

I put the int on Favre. Should just have taken the sack. The fact that Brett was trying to throw the ball away and got hit as he threw shows that the playcaller was not the problem. The fault is on Brett for not taking the sack and living to play another down.

[Scott Campbell]

I put the int on Favre. Should just have taken the sack. The fact that Brett was trying to throw the ball away and got hit as he threw shows that the playcaller was not the problem. The fault is on Brett for not taking the sack and living to play another down.

Taking the sack would have been preferrable to the INT, but he just can't hang onto it forever. He still tries to do too much himself. It was inexcusable given the down and distance, and the fact that a field goal would have given us back the lead.

[mmmdk]

I put the int on Favre. Should just have taken the sack. The fact that Brett was trying to throw the ball away and got hit as he threw shows that the playcaller was not the problem. The fault is on Brett for not taking the sack and living to play another down.

Taking the sack would have been preferrable to the INT, but he just can't hang onto it forever. He still tries to do too much himself. It was inexcusable given the down and distance, and the fact that a field goal would have given us back the lead.

Favre is ALWAYS thinking TD...he's only thrown 399 so far. But he should've taken the sack.