Official 2025 Training Camp Thread

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Guys get injured all the time at the receiver position. I expect to be no different in 2025.

S’up, Nutz. Still listening to Coldplay and showing Varsity Blues to your players?

I echo your sentiment regarding injuries. The days of “tape it up, pop in a pill, and go back into the damn game” are over. Nowadays, players are milksops. C-Wat is softer than Michael Sam in a brothel full of hot women. Claymaker used to skip games whenever he his hair ain’t pretty. And I betcha, you and Bobble aren’t too fond of whatever malady J-Alex bitched with last season.

Legendary coach Bud Kilmer would piss on today’s milksop players, I reckon.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Exactly. Are you going to inactive Doubs or Savion? Melton/Hardman are ST guys so hard to leave them inactive. It’s just a "good problem" to have, but it makes finally taking a WR in the firsts on a run oriented team even more perplexing to me. If Golden is flat out incredible I think it was a bad pick (incidentally I think it was a bad pick).

The Packers haven’t been a run-oriented team since Mike Sherman’s glory years with an aging Favor and Ahman Green.

Much as Tex and I would love to see the Love-Packers pass the rock 90% of the time, LaFleur prefers “balance” over smashmouth and the run-and-shoot.

The Frog’s obsession with the 11 formation baffles me. It’s 3rd and 20; how about dashing out a 4 or 5 receivers formation?

If the D dominates, there should be plenty of plays on offense to feed every one and their baby’s mamas. That clock milking bend and don’t break defensive shit pisses me off.

[bobblehead]

In todays NFL balance=run oriented.

edit: Which is all I ever actually ask for. Balance makes it hard on a defense. Last year with Willis in the game we went a little TOO run heavy.

[texaspackerbacker]

I've always been for a pass first situation, but I'm pretty much a convert to the LaFleur way. The motion and multiple offense thing really isn't exactly smashmouth. But you do what your personnel dictates, and you do what works. We had that RB dominance with Ahman Green, and we are better off RB-wise now than we've been anytime since then. We just have great depth and variety elsewhere too. It also ain't really a matter of milk the clock, more like move it down the field efficiently and fairly cautiously. I see plenty of 4 and 5 wideout use, and we may see more with Golden and Savion in the mix. However, you talk about "break defensive shit". Well, that's fine in moderation and caution, but to me, the absolute worst thing is TURNOVERS, particularly INTERCEPTIONS. And if you force by throwing deep too much, that's the risk, interceptions. I want Love and the offense in general to emulate Aaron Rodgers and the Rodgers years more than anything else - just with greater all around offensive talent.

[Deputy Nutz]

Everything is a count in the NFL and trading personnel on the defensive side to match what the offensive is doing. TEs are the difference makers because a good TE in 11 or 12 personnel really clouds the defensive assessment on run vs pass. The Packers can create confusion for defenses especially on 3rd and short, 1-10, or 2nd < 7. With Kraft and a healthy Musgrave that is a power combination at TE that could force teams to play nickel or dime personnel, or force LBs play coverage on Kraft and Musgrave. If the offensive sees DBs come in for LBs in 12 personnel you can expect the offense to run the football.

[Fritz]

Everything is a count in the NFL and trading personnel on the defensive side to match what the offensive is doing. TEs are the difference makers because a good TE in 11 or 12 personnel really clouds the defensive assessment on run vs pass. The Packers can create confusion for defenses especially on 3rd and short, 1-10, or 2nd < 7. With Kraft and a healthy Musgrave that is a power combination at TE that could force teams to play nickel or dime personnel, or force LBs play coverage on Kraft and Musgrave. If the offensive sees DBs come in for LBs in 12 personnel you can expect the offense to run the football.

For some reason I've been thinking a lot about how Luke Musgrave may be the offensive key to this team, scheme-wise. If he can be the player they thought he could be coming out of college (a second round TE is a pretty high pick for that position I think), he could make life hard on defenses, even moreso if he blocks decently.

I know the guy's been hurt, but I have yet to see the upside the team saw when they drafted him. He may be fast, but he sure looks more like a rumbler, and he's got that Richard Rodgers talent for dropping like a sack of potatoes as soon as he's hit.

I dunno. But two effective tight ends, a Nutz says, could make life on defensive coordinators tough.

[Joemailman]

Musgrave isn't a rumbler. He has speed, but is a stumbler. The scouting report on him was that he is easily knocked off his feet, but sometimes goes down without any contact. The real problem though is staying healthy. He's been hurt with the Packers, and missed most of his senior year of college with an injury. He hasn't played a full season since playing 13 games in 2021.

[Deputy Nutz]

For some reason I've been thinking a lot about how Luke Musgrave may be the offensive key to this team, scheme-wise. If he can be the player they thought he could be coming out of college (a second round TE is a pretty high pick for that position I think), he could make life hard on defenses, even moreso if he blocks decently.

I know the guy's been hurt, but I have yet to see the upside the team saw when they drafted him. He may be fast, but he sure looks more like a rumbler, and he's got that Richard Rodgers talent for dropping like a sack of potatoes as soon as he's hit.

I dunno. But two effective tight ends, a Nutz says, could make life on defensive coordinators tough.

The truth is that we haven't seen what Musgrave has been able to do because of injury, which his stat line isn't spectacular, but he did almost average 4 catches a game his rookie year which tells me that he runs trusted routes and can factor into the offense when healthy, availability = productivity for him. Obviously Kraft will be the #1 TE and get the benefit of the targets, but two tight ends that can be effective and has been massively productive for GB in the past.

[bobblehead]

Everything is a count in the NFL and trading personnel on the defensive side to match what the offensive is doing. TEs are the difference makers because a good TE in 11 or 12 personnel really clouds the defensive assessment on run vs pass. The Packers can create confusion for defenses especially on 3rd and short, 1-10, or 2nd < 7. With Kraft and a healthy Musgrave that is a power combination at TE that could force teams to play nickel or dime personnel, or force LBs play coverage on Kraft and Musgrave. If the offensive sees DBs come in for LBs in 12 personnel you can expect the offense to run the football.

Ditto. Which is exactly why I have been saying that having a TE that can't block well is pointless (talking to you fat mike). But I've only been saying it for my roughly 20 years on packerrats, so what do I know.

Its also the reason I like the Kraft pick more than I like the Luke pick. Its also the reason I like the Savion Williams pick. If you have options to run or pass equally with the same personnel on the field then a defense really has to pick its poison.

Brady was the GOAT at audibling out of a pass into a run with 1:15 left on the clock and the ball on his own 30 yard line. He'd run hurry up and take a free 15 yards running the ball over and over and then throw a TD pass with 11 seconds left (or be in FG range if that would be enough). For some reason he got away with it for decades without coordinators coming out of dime defenses....cuz thats the way we've always done it. (another reason I hated fat mike and his 2 man fronts that got gashed by big runs on 3rd and 4.)

[bobblehead]

The truth is that we haven't seen what Musgrave has been able to do because of injury, which his stat line isn't spectacular, but he did almost average 4 catches a game his rookie year which tells me that he runs trusted routes and can factor into the offense when healthy, availability = productivity for him. Obviously Kraft will be the #1 TE and get the benefit of the targets, but two tight ends that can be effective and has been massively productive for GB in the past.

Ironically (given the falls down label) they ran a ton of screens to him on early downs to take the easy 7-8 yards that should have been 15 if he didn't fall down. Kraft has now proven that he is better at that and nearly everything else. Musgrave kinda has one use imo and thats stretching the seam up the middle when LBs collapse on the run game. But the kicker is that from what I've seen Sims does it just as well and he was undrafted....plus Sims is at least Musgrave's equal as a blocker.

[smuggler]

If Melton sticks, he'll probably take the roster spot of the last CB. As for the rest, Reed is good, Wicks can't catch, Doubs has concussion problems, Watson can't stay heathy, Hardman is a journeyman, and Williams is a rookie gadget guy. With that in mind I think Golden was a good pick, and a great one if he pans out. Also, Doubs and Watson are at the end of their contracts, so you have to keep bringing in talented receivers or you wind up with a Lazard as #1.

Quoted for truth. I don't know how they evaluated him, but if he was a top tier player for them, as he may have been given their historic lack of emphasis in Rd1 at the position, the pick makes sense.

[texaspackerbacker]

Musgrave may have been a "stumbler" rather than a "rumbler" up to now with the Packers. But the potential is there with maybe just a little bulking up. And we are fortunate enough that he doesn't even have to be a first stringer as a grows into that improvement. As it is, he's a damn good second string TE - to go along with the Packers being loaded with WR talent and depth and arguably even more loaded with RB talent and depth.

[Fritz]

Musgrave isn't a rumbler. He has speed, but is a stumbler. The scouting report on him was that he is easily knocked off his feet, but sometimes goes down without any contact. The real problem though is staying healthy. He's been hurt with the Packers, and missed most of his senior year of college with an injury. He hasn't played a full season since playing 13 games in 2021.

The Steve Miller Band has this to say about Musgrave:

He's a stumbler,
He's a rumbler,
He's a midnight bumbler.
Gets knocked down when
He's on the run.

I don't know that much about football, I grant that. I'm just relaying my impression from watching him. I just don't see that speed everyone talks about. A few of you have said that inuries have been the problem. I hope you all are right. I'd love to see a fast tight end stretching the seam and making catches. And blocking a little.

[sharpe1027]

He's definitely run past LBers. He might not look fast.

[Joemailman]

Rookies and some others reported today. Belton signed his contract.