What Does MLF Need To Do To Retain Job Past This Year?

[pbmax]

This is the kind of poll question that's too hard to really answer, because so much is context. If The Flower loses most of his important starters but gets them to the playoffs, he'll be hailed as a genius. If he gets guys like Reed back, and sees a healthier team but gets to the playoffs and loses in an embarrassing fashion, well, maybe Policy will think The Flower has wilted.

But my god, LeFleur's got to fix that offensive line. All playcalling looks horrible when it doesn't work - can't work - because the offensive line can't open a hole or give the QB a reasonable pocket from which to throw.

And Love needs to be able to see the field. I've seen QB's who are surrounded by defensive linemen at very close range, to the point you can't even see the QB, but the ball comes rocketing out of there and boom, it's a completion. Love isn't that guy. Rodgers was a master at shifting around in the pocket. Favre early on wasn't afraid at all. Love seems to need a clearer field of vision. And once he bails, then receivers react and change routes, so he has to look for them, but often these days he's looking at the defenders in front of him. So he needs a bigger field of vision. Having the deeper dropbacks helped. But still, the offensive line has to be fixed.

Jacobs is now two yards and cloud of dust, as my father used to say. That's not scaring anybody.

And on third downs that are passing downs (anything over three yards), how about putting Brooks in there? He's a good blocker - priority #1 - and he can catch a ball and get you that five yards. Is he as good in the open field as Jacobs? No, of course not. But at this point, I'd be willing to give that up to have a better blocker back there, since the offensive line has allowed so much pressure up the middle. And with a good run blocker in Kraft out for the year, how about some two back formations so Brooks can lead the way, since Morgan, Jenkins, and Banks were all letting their guys get into the backfield right away. At least Brooks could take care of one of them and let Jacobs get to the LOS before he gets hit.

We have to give LeFleur credit for the Halfley hire - that seems to be his best hire. So much so that Matty's looking at his ipad thing during the game, not even watching the defense.

Fix the offensive line, and the rest will follow. But how do you fix that offensive line? Whew. They seem to have trained six guys at ___ and at right guard, but they don't seem to have trained anyone at ___ and left guard. I guess they thought Jenkins had that covered.

Guter also needs to be discussed. He's got this team at the edge of sal cap purgatory, in part because of his terrible, terrible Hobbs and Banks signings. Both those players are limited in the positions they play - Hobbs is not an outside corner, we find, and Banks isn't even a left guard, Guter deserves some heat here as well.

Hobbs and Banks are not terrible contracts to escape. Especially Hobbs. The big ones are Parsons and Love.

I had the Favre argument with my boss today who said Favre was a master at moving the right way in the pocket and Love too often moves immediately into trouble, which is half true. I think people confuse MVP years Favre and Rodgers movement with early years Favre and Rodgers. Favre used to get clobbered in the pocket waiting too long for routes to get uncovered and Rodgers was called Mr. Happy Feet for a year and a half. Favre would get a concussion running into a D lineman, bounce off and fire a pass over the middle at 100 mph never more than 9 feet off the ground.

The line has been getting worse under Love for 2 years now and he does not yet have a lot of pocket skills. So he has one eye on the routes and one eye on the rushers. His instinct is to drop deeper and that usually takes an interior pressure problem and gives you an edge pressure problem. The other issue is that an O line pass pro problem with a QB who doesn't know how to handle it becomes twice as bad as the QB adds to the issue.

LaFleur needs to rebuild the offensive game plan. The playbook is so restricted its becoming easy to predict. He's also got to give up his fetish for 1st down runs.

And Jacobs can't be in for passing downs if one of the pass pro calls might requires him to block. Its like no one remembers the lessons of Holmgren, Sherman and McCarthy. You can't add a poor pass pro element back into this bad pass pro offense.

[Joemailman]

I don't think there is any fixing the offensive line mid-season. I think he needs to recognize this line isn't very good at run blocking, and stop with the idea that he can use the run to set up the pass. He needs to get creative rather than beating his head against the wall.

I think they have an usual problem on the OL. They have 3 legit starting OT's (Walker, Tom and Morgan) but nobody they can count on at G. Morgan isn't very good at G, and Tom and Walker haven't played there in a long time, if at all. I wish they had transitioned Belton to G this summer instead of using him just at T.

[QBME]

I truly don’t where to post this, but it seems correct at this point in time.
MLF needs to get his arse out of the barber’s chair, retract his cranium from his rectal cavity and get serious about business.

[Fritz]

I don't think there is any fixing the offensive line mid-season. I think he needs to recognize this line isn't very good at run blocking, and stop with the idea that he can use the run to set up the pass. He needs to get creative rather than beating his head against the wall.

I think they have an usual problem on the OL. They have 3 legit starting OT's (Walker, Tom and Morgan) but nobody they can count on at G. Morgan isn't very good at G, and Tom and Walker haven't played there in a long time, if at all. I wish they had transitioned Belton to G this summer instead of using him just at T.

I would hope you can fix something like this in-season, as big as it is. Analyze the parts you have and who is best suited - at this point - to which positions. Clearly they screwed up thinking Jenkins would be an upgrade - maybe he would've gotten better at it, but through nine games, he's not been very good. And now he's out for some time. So: who's the best center you have left, and what does he do well/not do well? And can you use Brooks more to compensate for some of this shitty interior blocking? Would Rhyan at left guard be an upgrade over Banks? Can Monk handle the center position? At least get Morgan out at right guard, for god's sakes. Didn't Belton train at RG this summer? God I hope so.

Or sit down with Luke Butkus and do some in-depth analysis of how he teaches and what the routines are, and how they can be bettered.

Game plan for more rollouts and such so Love can see the field better? Quit running every first down? Go back to the old west coast offense and use short throws to the backs as your running game?

Throw pennies in a wishing well. Pray to the gods of all religions. Offer to make a deal with Satan.

[texaspackerbacker]

I voted that his job is not in jeopardy. That doesn't mean I like it that way, just that I don't expect him to get fired. I've soured on LaFleur a bit gradually.

[Joemailman]

Monk had a poor training camp and preseason. I doubt they have much confidence in him at this point. Rhyan was the #2 C all summer.

I wish Belton had played RG, but I'm pretty sure they played him at both T positions. Asking a rookie to learn a new position in the middle of the season is asking too much.

It will be interesting to see if they give Morgan some competition from either Kinnard or Monk at RG. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Packers thought they would have a big, physical OL that would open up holes for Josh Jacobs. They don't. So they need to adjust.

[call_me_ishmael]

6'5" 310 is fast-dancing-tackle weight, not mauling guard weight. That boy needs to weigh at least 330. Morgan isn't a guard, why they keep pushing this?

I feel like Belton could start at LG tomorrow. And maybe he should. Maybe he won't be great, but it's at least worth a look after seeing the ass that is Banks.

[Fosco33]

How did the offensive line fail so mightily? Pre season it felt like a strength? Banks was a hit and then just more injuries/shuffling.

LaFleur never seems to change the plan to really adapt to the players/situation.

No clue on what Lafleurs job security is - I think he’s safe for another year.

[Fritz]

Monk had a poor training camp and preseason. I doubt they have much confidence in him at this point. Rhyan was the #2 C all summer.

I wish Belton had played RG, but I'm pretty sure they played him at both T positions. Asking a rookie to learn a new position in the middle of the season is asking too much.

It will be interesting to see if they give Morgan some competition from either Kinnard or Monk at RG. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Packers thought they would have a big, physical OL that would open up holes for Josh Jacobs. They don't. So they need to adjust.

I watched the Justis Mosqueda Cheesehead TV bit you shared on another thread; you're right, Belton has NOT trained at all at guard.

To the thread subject - here's another way to see this. Not about playoffs or whatnot, but instead, maybe it's a question of whether LeFleur shows that he can adjust and adapt to the situation instead of digging in his heels, as he seems to be doing so far. Is he willing to use the I-formation with Brooks and Jacobs? Can he scheme some more intermediate type plays for Love? Can he move Love around since the pass protection is not good, especially up the middle? In other words, can he put his players in the best position to win, or will he go all stubborn?

The idea talked about when he came in was this appearance of complexity that masked the simplicity. Well, right now there's no appearance of complexity at all. Everybody knows what Matty's calling, and with Kraft out, it's worse, way worse, because he could block AND catch and get YAC.

So: can Matt LeFleur adjust to the situation on the ground? Maybe that's what Policy will be looking at.

[pbmax]

When I saw Belton was the draft pick and looked him up (bare bones search, I did no scouting nor watched any videos) I saw him at RG and RT in camp and had high hopes that he was move #3 and literal big addition inside #2 to the line to get more physical to help both interior pass blocking and the run.

The Packers took a far more conservative approach; which makes some sense, 2 position were going to change and there was no guarantee Walker was going to be the LT. I'm not sure there was a path forward here that did not involve a larger gamble on their part.

[pbmax]

I still think, worries about YAC and getting big plays from small plays aside, Jacobs can't be the 3rd down back unless the O line has been making bad protection calls for him. He cannot block well.

Brooks or Wilson will give him more time. And then you need to scheme shorter stuff that will pan out.

[Fritz]

I'm pretty sure what I'm about to say is utter fantasy, given that, as I understand it, during the season no team has time to fuck around with completely switching up guys' positions. The focus is on game-planning for that week's opponent.

So, having said that - yeah, this is an ignorant fan's idea - I'm going to toss it out there anyway. A thought experiment maybe.

Okay, so your guards (and center) have been your weak spots this year. I don't know enough to know if Banks or Morgan is playing worse, but neither is playing well. And Rhyan is a wild card as a center. As others have noted, as a guard he's good at run blocking, pretty bad at pass blocking. Guessing that would continue at the center position, but I dunno. Anyway, I'm saying Banks or Morgan - one of them - is the weakest link.

So do you blow up your offensive line to try to fix that? Probably not . . . but IF you were going to think about it, do you:

1. Move Tom to center and start Belton at RT (unless Morgan has also cross-trained there, in which case, you start him at RT)
2. Move Rhyan to right guard to take over for Morgan
3. Let Kinnard play LG to take over for the very horrible Aaron Banks

So - Walker - Kinnard - Tom - Rhyan - Belton or Morgan

You then have gotten Banks and Morgan out of the middle of the line

But you'd be fucked for weeks and weeks while they adjust, of course. Maybe that'd knock you out of the playoffs altogether.

It's probably, given the realities or preparing to play week-to-week, a ridiculous idea. But I'm just a fan and I can and do say stupid crazy shit.

[texaspackerbacker]

Unless they have to, of course, because of injuries

Regarding your prescription, I also would like to see more of Belton on the field, RT being the most likely place. As for Tom, I'd rather see him at Guard where he did so well before switching to Tackle and being pretty mediocre there. Rhyan wasn't too bad at Center last game, no worse than Jenkins before the injury IMO. Morgan also has not been terrible/probably risen up to mediocre level at RG. I still hold out some hope that Banks won't be a complete flop. I'd like to see Tom replace either Banks or Morgan at Guard. Leave Kinnard as a backup and leave Walker at LT.

I still long for the old days of Meyers at Center and Jenkins and Tom at Guard. I don't see any combination now that would be as good as that. But the haters ran Meyers out of town. Oh well.

[Joemailman]

Unless they have to, of course, because of injuries

Regarding your prescription, I also would like to see more of Belton on the field, RT being the most likely place. As for Tom, I'd rather see him at Guard where he did so well before switching to Tackle and being pretty mediocre there. Rhyan wasn't too bad at Center last game, no worse than Jenkins before the injury IMO. Morgan also has not been terrible/probably risen up to mediocre level at RG. I still hold out some hope that Banks won't be a complete flop. I'd like to see Tom replace either Banks or Morgan at Guard. Leave Kinnard as a backup and leave Walker at LT.

I still long for the old days of Meyers at Center and Jenkins and Tom at Guard. I don't see any combination now that would be as good as that. But the haters ran Meyers out of town. Oh well.

Actually I don't think it was us. I think it was Gute who ran Myers out. And only the worst organization in football showed any interest in him.

[pbmax]

Unless they have to, of course, because of injuries

Regarding your prescription, I also would like to see more of Belton on the field, RT being the most likely place. As for Tom, I'd rather see him at Guard where he did so well before switching to Tackle and being pretty mediocre there. Rhyan wasn't too bad at Center last game, no worse than Jenkins before the injury IMO. Morgan also has not been terrible/probably risen up to mediocre level at RG. I still hold out some hope that Banks won't be a complete flop. I'd like to see Tom replace either Banks or Morgan at Guard. Leave Kinnard as a backup and leave Walker at LT.

I still long for the old days of Meyers at Center and Jenkins and Tom at Guard. I don't see any combination now that would be as good as that. But the haters ran Meyers out of town. Oh well.

Tom played one game that I can find at Guard for Runyan after a concussion in 2022. He's been the starting RT since Game 1 of 2023 season.

https://www.packers.com/news/packers-sign-ol-zach-tom-to-contract-extension-2025

Demovsky had a quote once that said someone in the Packer front office thought Tom was a Pro Bowl Tackle, All Pro Guard and a HoF Center. But that was the offseason of 2024.