Sherm deserves a nod for saving Favre & the fans this ci

[MJZiggy]

Thompson and McCarthy have not done that. They've not poo-poo'd the story the way Sherman did. They've consistantly given 'the ball is in his court' comments to the media which in-turn flare the situation and send the cameras flocking towards Favre.

I'm sure he's got a shotgun on the farm and the new pup will learn to guard the perimeter well. Hattiesburg, I'm sure also has a fine PD that would be more than willing to charge the press with tresspassing should they become a nuisance.

What can anyone say Thompson or McCarthy have done to squash the hype around the Favre retirement story? Can anyone think of anything they've done to squash the story or take the legs out from under the story the way

Brett could also have squashed the story. He's a big boy. He can well take care of himself.

[Patler]

And on the other comments made regarding the old regime's 'hands-off' approach to Favre and how they're realing him in now ... That's ridiculous.

OK, fine gureski, a statement I make as a POSSIBLE factor because of things we may not know as fans is ridiculous, and only your opinions have any value. I did not ridicule your opinion, just agreed with anothers opinion, and offered another thought. Why must you ridicule my thoughts (By the way, when you have time, look up the meaning of the phrase "pompous jerk".) However, since that is how you wish to debate:

1. We have no way of knowing what other players thought about Favre being excused from off season camps. To think perhaps we do... is naive.

2. Pinning the blame for this offseason circus on MM and TT ... That's just plain stupid. It ignores the facts in front of your face. Favre is as much responsible as anyone for creating it by continually responding with elaborate statements about his "indecision". Favre has been more public about this whole thing than either MM or TT. Favre has put them in the spot of HAVING to be public about it because Favre has been so public about it.

3. Your comments on the bonus situation ... just plain ridiculous. Postponing a bonus is a proposal to "take away" from the player. That should come from the player, not the team. Why didn't Favre propose moving the bonus back immediately? The team can't do it unilaterally.

4. Blaming TT for focusing the spotlight on Favre ... that's dumb. Favre attracts the spotlight all by himself by continually and frequently blaming TT for Favre's own indecision, forcing writers and commentators to give time to the "what has TT done to entice Favre to return" stories. Favre is hurting the image of the Packers right now more than any other individual. As you stated, Favre is the face of the Packers. What has Favre done as the face of the Packers? He has told the press that many players are not worthy to play with him. He has criticised the organization that has paid him handsomely and surrounded him with decent players every year except last year when injuries were a big part of what happened.

The bottom line is that Favre his damaging his own image, not because he hasn't made a decision, but by his own statements about his teammates and his very open criticism of the organization. This situation would not have arisen if he had simply avoided the elaborate answers he has given.

Favre is doing an immense disservice to the organization by trashing them in the press after the team has supported him tremendously throughout his career.

[gureski]

And on the other comments made regarding the old regime's 'hands-off' approach to Favre and how they're realing him in now ... That's ridiculous.

OK, fine gureski, a statement I make as a POSSIBLE factor because of things we may not know as fans is ridiculous, and only your opinions have any value. I did not ridicule your opinion, just agreed with anothers opinion, and offered another thought. Why must you ridicule my thoughts (By the way, when you have time, look up the meaning of the phrase "pompous jerk".) However, since that is how you wish to debate:

1. We have no way of knowing what other players thought about Favre being excused from off season camps. To think perhaps we do... is naive.

2. Pinning the blame for this offseason circus on MM and TT ... That'is just plain stupid. It ignores the facts in front of your face. Favre is as much responsible as anyone for creating it by continually responding with elaborate statements about his "indecision". Favre has been more public about this whole thing than either MM or TT. Favre has put them in the spot of HAVING to be public about it because Favre has been so public about it.

3. Your comments on the bonus situation ... just plain ridiculous. Postponing a bonus is a proposal to "take away" from the player. That should come from the player, not the team. Why didn't Favre propose moving the bonus back immediately? The team can't do it unilaterally.

4. Blaming TT for focusing the spotlight on Favre ... that's dumb. Favre attracts the spotlight all by himself by continually and frequently blaming TT for Favre's own indecision, forcing writers and commentators to give time to the "what has TT done to entice Favre to return" stories. Favre is hurting the image of the Packers right now more than any other individual. As you stated, Favre is the face of the Packers. What has Favre done as the face of the Packers? He has told the press that many players are not worthy to play with him. He has criticised the organization that has paid him handsomely and surrounded him with decent players every year except last year when injuries were a big part of what happened.

The bottom line is that Favre his damaging his own image, not because he hasn't made a decision, but by his own statements about his teammates and his very open criticism of the organization. This situation would not have arisen if he had simply avoided the elaborate answers he has given.

Favre is doing an immense disservice to the organization by trashing them in the press after the team has supported him tremendously throught his career.

First off, put my full comments up there so that the word 'ridiculous' is in proper context. I didnt' try to insult you but I'm not above that, if the situation calls for it. I hate it when guys like you go off on me and then proceed to do the same things you accused me of doing. You called some of my ideas dumb and stupid above. Should I cry about that? You called me dumb...boo hoo. Just get over it. If I was going to insult you I'd come right out and do it by calling you an idiot. And if I did call you an idiot at some point that doesn't mean anything deep...okay? Don't be so damn sensitive.

On to the meat of your comments...

1. Other players feelings towards Sherman giving Favre the time to decide last year have nothing to do with the topic I'm talking about. I never inferred anything about other players feelings. You're out in left field on this one.

2. and some 4. My assertion is that there wouldn't have been countless interviews and stories ..aka this circus... if McCarthy and THompson had downplayed and squashed the story from the start. In reality, All they did was shove the focus back onto Favre time and time again which caused the media to keep fishing at Favre. If Thompson and/or McCarthy did what Sherman did last year....and simply downplayed the situation and asserted that Favre not making a public decision now does nothing negative to the team....that would've helped kill the story. There's no juicy story if management says Favre isn't hurting the team and that they don't need to hear anything from him til May or June, is there now? The point is that there was a different...proven way to handle this and the current Packers brass chose otherwise. That's their mistake.

3. Favre was rather clear in public comments that he would not have an answer by the time each short-term deadline came around. He was sure of that much and only that much so why wasn't the deadline moved farther back right away? Are you saying Favre wanted the short term deadlines? He knew he didn't have a decision and yet somehow asked for short deadlines? Would that scenerio make any sense? And even if he was..(which I don't believe) asking for short extensions....the money isn't paid out til fall or winter. Why not, from the management standpoint, request the issue be wiped out via a long extension? Why keep going with short extensions? This is absolutely a management issue. It's their money.

4. You've got to be kidding me if you are going to really state that you cant' think of anything that Favre has done for the Packers and their image? You can't make that case so don't even go there. Just admit you got wrapped up in arguing. It happens to all of us.

Furthermore, can you tell me exactly what comments Favre has made that criticized the organization? Or can you tell me exactly what comments you're talking about when you stated that Favre told the media that certain players aren't worthy of playing with him? I don't recall Favre taking an anti-team stance or anti-organization stance at all. Not with his words. People may have blown his comments into something that you talk of but Favre himself hasnt' criticized the organization in the fashion you suggest.

And last but not least...Favre isn't destroying his image or the teams image. I ask again for you to lay out all these negative comments and statements that you keep alluding to. I don't know of any. Saying you want the team to be the best it can be isn't a negative. Saying you want to win is not a negative. Saying you want the team to improve is not a negative or a cut on anyone. Maybe you know something I dont or maybe you don't realize that Favre's actual comments...word for word...are not scathing attacks on the organization.

I go back to the topic I brought up.... and I ask you whether Thompson and McCarthy have done ANYTHING to squash the circus that has become the Favre retirement story? Can you bring up anything that they've done to quiet this story and downplay it and take the feet out from under the story? Favre has consistantly said he's unsure. He told people to go watch baseball and stop thinking about him. Why can't Thompson and McCarthy do the same? If they did....it would kill the underlying juice to the story and the circus would go away. The juice in the story of Favre's retirement involves his ability to co-exist and his relationship with Thompson. That's what the reporters are chasing. That relationship and its dynamics are what the reporters are hungry for. If that were taken away.....the media would sit and wait for Favre to call a press-conference to announce his decision. Sherman understood that the GM and coach needed to shield Favre and the organization from the media circus. Thompson and McCarthy obviously dont' get that.

[swede]

I decided a few weeks ago not to let the Favre retirement thing bother me anymore. Mostly this is the media doing what they do. Partly Brett is at fault for linking his decision to what the team will do in FA and the draft. Brett gets into trouble like this because he is way more honest than smart.

I'm happy if he stays.

I'm happy if he's traded to Tampa Bay or the Raiders or New Orleans before the draft for at least a 2nd, but I really don't see that happening. He'd only do this if he felt he really needed another SB ring and he didn't care where it came from. I don't think he feels that way and I don't hink he wants to learn a new offense.

I'm happy for him if he retires. The legend for me was only partly about the arm and the winning. It was always about what a neat, refreshing, and honest personality he brought to professional sports. And he was ours.

[Patler]

And on the other comments made regarding the old regime's 'hands-off' approach to Favre and how they're realing him in now ... That's ridiculous.

OK, fine gureski, a statement I make as a POSSIBLE factor because of things we may not know as fans is ridiculous, and only your opinions have any value. I did not ridicule your opinion, just agreed with anothers opinion, and offered another thought. Why must you ridicule my thoughts (By the way, when you have time, look up the meaning of the phrase "pompous jerk".) However, since that is how you wish to debate:

1. We have no way of knowing what other players thought about Favre being excused from off season camps. To think perhaps we do... is naive.

2. Pinning the blame for this offseason circus on MM and TT ... That'is just plain stupid. It ignores the facts in front of your face. Favre is as much responsible as anyone for creating it by continually responding with elaborate statements about his "indecision". Favre has been more public about this whole thing than either MM or TT. Favre has put them in the spot of HAVING to be public about it because Favre has been so public about it.

3. Your comments on the bonus situation ... just plain ridiculous. Postponing a bonus is a proposal to "take away" from the player. That should come from the player, not the team. Why didn't Favre propose moving the bonus back immediately? The team can't do it unilaterally.

4. Blaming TT for focusing the spotlight on Favre ... that's dumb. Favre attracts the spotlight all by himself by continually and frequently blaming TT for Favre's own indecision, forcing writers and commentators to give time to the "what has TT done to entice Favre to return" stories. Favre is hurting the image of the Packers right now more than any other individual. As you stated, Favre is the face of the Packers. What has Favre done as the face of the Packers? He has told the press that many players are not worthy to play with him. He has criticised the organization that has paid him handsomely and surrounded him with decent players every year except last year when injuries were a big part of what happened.

The bottom line is that Favre his damaging his own image, not because he hasn't made a decision, but by his own statements about his teammates and his very open criticism of the organization. This situation would not have arisen if he had simply avoided the elaborate answers he has given.

Favre is doing an immense disservice to the organization by trashing them in the press after the team has supported him tremendously throught his career.

First off, put my full comments up there so that the word 'ridiculous' is in proper context. I didnt' try to insult you but I'm not above that, if the situation calls for it. I hate it when guys like you go off on me and then proceed to do the same things you accused me of doing. You called some of my ideas dumb and stupid above. Should I cry about that? You called me dumb...boo hoo. Just get over it. If I was going to insult you I'd come right out and do it by calling you an idiot. And if I did call you an idiot at some point that doesn't mean anything deep...okay? Don't be so damn sensitive.

On to the meat of your comments...

1. Other players feelings towards Sherman giving Favre the time to decide last year have nothing to do with the topic I'm talking about. I never inferred anything about other players feelings. You're out in left field on this one.

2. and some 4. My assertion is that there wouldn't have been countless interviews and stories ..aka this circus... if McCarthy and THompson had downplayed and squashed the story from the start. In reality, All they did was shove the focus back onto Favre time and time again which caused the media to keep fishing at Favre. If Thompson and/or McCarthy did what Sherman did last year....and simply downplayed the situation and asserted that Favre not making a public decision now does nothing negative to the team....that would've helped kill the story. There's no juicy story if management says Favre isn't hurting the team and that they don't need to hear anything from him til May or June, is there now? The point is that there was a different...proven way to handle this and the current Packers brass chose otherwise. That's their mistake.

3. Favre was rather clear in public comments that he would not have an answer by the time each short-term deadline came around. He was sure of that much and only that much so why wasn't the deadline moved farther back right away? Are you saying Favre wanted the short term deadlines? He knew he didn't have a decision and yet somehow asked for short deadlines? Would that scenerio make any sense? And even if he was..(which I don't believe) asking for short extensions....the money isn't paid out til fall or winter. Why not, from the management standpoint, request the issue be wiped out via a long extension? Why keep going with short extensions? This is absolutely a management issue. It's their money.

4. You've got to be kidding me if you are going to really state that you cant' think of anything that Favre has done for the Packers and their image? You can't make that case so don't even go there. Just admit you got wrapped up in arguing. It happens to all of us.

Furthermore, can you tell me exactly what comments Favre has made that criticized the organization? Or can you tell me exactly what comments you're talking about when you stated that Favre told the media that certain players aren't worthy of playing with him? I don't recall Favre taking an anti-team stance or anti-organization stance at all. Not with his words. People may have blown his comments into something that you talk of but Favre himself hasnt' criticized the organization in the fashion you suggest.

And last but not least...Favre isn't destroying his image or the teams image. I ask again for you to lay out all these negative comments and statements that you keep alluding to. I don't know of any. Saying you want the team to be the best it can be isn't a negative. Saying you want to win is not a negative. Saying you want the team to improve is not a negative or a cut on anyone. Maybe you know something I dont or maybe you don't realize that Favre's actual comments...word for word...are not scathing attacks on the organization.

I go back to the topic I brought up.... and I ask you whether Thompson and McCarthy have done ANYTHING to squash the circus that has become the Favre retirement story? Can you bring up anything that they've done to quiet this story and downplay it and take the feet out from under the story? Favre has consistantly said he's unsure. He told people to go watch baseball and stop thinking about him. Why can't Thompson and McCarthy do the same? If they did....it would kill the underlying juice to the story and the circus would go away. The juice in the story of Favre's retirement involves his ability to co-exist and his relationship with Thompson. That's what the reporters are chasing. That relationship and its dynamics are what the reporters are hungry for. If that were taken away.....the media would sit and wait for Favre to call a press-conference to announce his decision. Sherman understood that the GM and coach needed to shield Favre and the organization from the media circus. Thompson and McCarthy obviously dont' get that.

Why do I have to quote your entire post? I copied the entire phrase in which you stated what was ridiculous, "And on the other comments made regarding the old regime's 'hands-off' approach to Favre and how they're realing him in now ... That's ridiculous." Your direct words.

Yes, I called your comments, "naive", "ridiculous" and 'stupid". Did you not perceive my purpose in doing that? Did you not read my statement, "However, since that is how you wish to debate:" I was treating your remarks with the same disdain you gave mine. Get it????

I guess it is proper for Gureski to call Shamrockfans comment "ridiculous" but not for Shamrockfan to return the favor.

[Rastak]

I'm not sure how much more Thompson and McCarthy could shut down the story. The firestorm starts everything someone talks to Favre...they don't ask anyones permission. I think the majority of folks believe Favre has basically stated unless Green Bay is a better team, I don't want to be involved. I'm paraphrasing but it's been the general tone.


I don't think anyone really though he'd quit last year so I'm not sure the media persued it as hard.

[Patler]

1. Other players feelings towards Sherman giving Favre the time to decide last year have nothing to do with the topic I'm talking about. I never inferred anything about other players feelings. You're out in left field on this one.

2. and some 4. My assertion is that there wouldn't have been countless interviews and stories ..aka this circus... if McCarthy and THompson had downplayed and squashed the story from the start. In reality, All they did was shove the focus back onto Favre time and time again which caused the media to keep fishing at Favre. If Thompson and/or McCarthy did what Sherman did last year....and simply downplayed the situation and asserted that Favre not making a public decision now does nothing negative to the team....that would've helped kill the story. There's no juicy story if management says Favre isn't hurting the team and that they don't need to hear anything from him til May or June, is there now? The point is that there was a different...proven way to handle this and the current Packers brass chose otherwise. That's their mistake.

3. Favre was rather clear in public comments that he would not have an answer by the time each short-term deadline came around. He was sure of that much and only that much so why wasn't the deadline moved farther back right away? Are you saying Favre wanted the short term deadlines? He knew he didn't have a decision and yet somehow asked for short deadlines? Would that scenerio make any sense? And even if he was..(which I don't believe) asking for short extensions....the money isn't paid out til fall or winter. Why not, from the management standpoint, request the issue be wiped out via a long extension? Why keep going with short extensions? This is absolutely a management issue. It's their money.

4. You've got to be kidding me if you are going to really state that you cant' think of anything that Favre has done for the Packers and their image? You can't make that case so don't even go there. Just admit you got wrapped up in arguing. It happens to all of us.

Furthermore, can you tell me exactly what comments Favre has made that criticized the organization? Or can you tell me exactly what comments you're talking about when you stated that Favre told the media that certain players aren't worthy of playing with him? I don't recall Favre taking an anti-team stance or anti-organization stance at all. Not with his words. People may have blown his comments into something that you talk of but Favre himself hasnt' criticized the organization in the fashion you suggest.

And last but not least...Favre isn't destroying his image or the teams image. I ask again for you to lay out all these negative comments and statements that you keep alluding to. I don't know of any. Saying you want the team to be the best it can be isn't a negative. Saying you want to win is not a negative. Saying you want the team to improve is not a negative or a cut on anyone. Maybe you know something I dont or maybe you don't realize that Favre's actual comments...word for word...are not scathing attacks on the organization.

I go back to the topic I brought up.... and I ask you whether Thompson and McCarthy have done ANYTHING to squash the circus that has become the Favre retirement story? Can you bring up anything that they've done to quiet this story and downplay it and take the feet out from under the story? Favre has consistantly said he's unsure. He told people to go watch baseball and stop thinking about him. Why can't Thompson and McCarthy do the same? If they did....it would kill the underlying juice to the story and the circus would go away. The juice in the story of Favre's retirement involves his ability to co-exist and his relationship with Thompson. That's what the reporters are chasing. That relationship and its dynamics are what the reporters are hungry for. If that were taken away.....the media would sit and wait for Favre to call a press-conference to announce his decision. Sherman understood that the GM and coach needed to shield Favre and the organization from the media circus. Thompson and McCarthy obviously dont' get that.

Re:

1. It has everything to do with the topic, because it might explain the difference in handling this year, and consequently the error in Sherman's handling previously. Less reason to give credit to Sherman for what he did.

2&4. Actually TT and MM have made those types of statements, time and time again. There was an entire article a week ago with TT saying Favre is not hurting them MM too. My assertion is that Favre's actions on several fronts is what has kept the circus rolling. If he wouldn't continually shove the blame for his decision on TT's actions, it would soon die down.

#3. I'm not saying he wanted short deadlines, but the proposal should have come from him.

#4. The comment was directed at his actions this offseason, which is wht your original discussion was about. Favre has done much more harm to the organization this offseason with his comments than the good he has done during that same period.

He's called out his linemen,per a quote in another thread on here last week. I asked the same question you asked, and someone provided the answer referencing the article in which he said it.

He was quoted as saying to the effect "Have they signed anyone" in what was presented as a sarcastic comment by him.

He called this team as being closer to 4-12 than to a winning record, I heard that in one of his interviews.

My asserion is that TT and MM can not stop the fire of controversy, because Favre keeps feeding it. I referenced there attempts in "2&4" above.

[MJZiggy]

I think the part that a lot of people are forgetting is that this is a story that does not take a lot to feed. Brett farts in a press conference and it makes national news. The blame oftentimes lies with neither Brett nor TT and M3.

Let's take a look at my new nemesis, John Clayton. He told Brett Favre before the SuperBowl that he wanted to interview him for a story about Matt Hasselbeck, Brett's former backup. As Hass and Brett are frends, he agreed. I defy anyone to go back through that interview or the ensuing article and find a single reference to Matt Hasselbeck. After a few days, Clayton again gave us all his "expert" opinion based on the interview we all saw and starting the whole firestorm up again. A week or so later, Clayton was on again spouting more bull, based on, (guess what) that same interview. The rest of the media, not to be scooped, (did what) quoted Clayton since they didn't have the direct quotes from Favre. Check about 2 weeks after the SuperBowl and you will find Clayton quoted everywhere, not Favre. So Brett speaks once and the story carries for more than a month, torn apart, shredded analyzed and put back together to say what everyone wanted to say (Oh my God, he doesn't want the ball with 2 minutes left--he should retire). He did not speak again until the Havel interview a week or so ago where he directly answered every question he was asked and said nothing except in response to the questions and because it was so direct, got little play. However, when he spoke at the golf outing, he said why he was hesitating. Let's remember he was asked. These are the only times I can even think of that he said ANYthing to the media at all. The media just has the habit of thinking,"well, it's a slow news day, what can the Packers possibly do to make Favre do something and make a story? That is what they then write about. The circus is an ESPN invention because they are not creative enough to come up with new things to write about for their football page.

[gureski]

"Yes, I called your comments, "naive", "ridiculous" and 'stupid". Did you not perceive my purpose in doing that? Did you not read my statement, "However, since that is how you wish to debate:" I was treating your remarks with the same disdain you gave mine. Get it????

I guess it is proper for Gureski to call Shamrockfans comment "ridiculous" but not for Shamrockfan to return the favor"

end quote

Now I'm calling you an idiot. You were offended that I would dare call something you said 'ridiculous' yet you had no problem jumping in yourself and calling my ideas dumb, stupid, and ect... The point that you obviously don't get is that you had no problem stooping to that low level of which you painted me and therefore you yourself are proven to not be above that.

Whether you realized it or not, you took a stance as if you're above such behavior and then proceeded to engage in such behavior. I believe the word is hypocrite.

[gureski]

"1. It has everything to do with the topic, because it might explain the difference in handling this year, and consequently the error in Sherman's handling previously. Less reason to give credit to Sherman for what he did. "

end quote

It has nothing to do with the topic. Your point is 100% speculation. Can you name any players on the team that said they were ticked that Favre didn't have to go to last years mini-camps? No, you can't. You made up a fact to support your stance.

"2&4. Actually TT and MM have made those types of statements, time and time again. There was an entire article a week ago with TT saying Favre is not hurting them MM too. My assertion is that Favre's actions on several fronts is what has kept the circus rolling. If he wouldn't continually shove the blame for his decision on TT's actions, it would soon die down. "

end quote

I disagree with you and I'm calling on you to Stop going generic and talk about the specific comments in which Favre blames his decision on Thompson's actions and the specific comments or statements that you say McCarthy and Thompson have made time and time again... I missed that. Enlighten me. You name one article to support the statement of 'time and time and time again'. If there are so many, as you say, you should have an easy time finding them to quote.

"#3. I'm not saying he wanted short deadlines, but the proposal should have come from him. "

end quote

How do you know it didn't? I do know that management didn't want to pay him til he made a decision. I know Favre was pretty up front and honest about not being ready to meet the deadlines set in front of him. If he wasnt' ready to make a decision then why would he ask for a 1 week extension? It doesn't make sense. Regardless that ...management DID know that they didnt' want to pay him til he decided and they DID know he wasnt' ready to decide so why not do the smart thing and delay the bonus for a couple months instead of a week here and a couple weeks there? It doesn't make sense, does it?

"#4. The comment was directed at his actions this offseason, which is wht your original discussion was about. Favre has done much more harm to the organization this offseason with his comments than the good he has done during that same period.

He's called out his linemen,per a quote in another thread on here last week. I asked the same question you asked, and someone provided the answer referencing the article in which he said it.

He was quoted as saying to the effect "Have they signed anyone" in what was presented as a sarcastic comment by him.

He called this team as being closer to 4-12 than to a winning record, I heard that in one of his interviews.

My asserion is that TT and MM can not stop the fire of controversy, because Favre keeps feeding it. I referenced there attempts in "2&4" above"

end quotes

And once again you say all this stuff with nothing to back it up. No quotes...no reference to specific interviews... You just say things. You quoted a bunch of stuff I said but left out the part where I challenged you to include specifics. If you have nothing than say so. I do not see one single shred of proof from you where Favre criticized his teammates by name. I don't see a single area where Favre ripped the organization. These are things you said happened. Show me.

[Rastak]

"1. It has everything to do with the topic, because it might explain the difference in handling this year, and consequently the error in Sherman's handling previously. Less reason to give credit to Sherman for what he did. "

end quote

It has nothing to do with the topic. Your point is 100% speculation. Can you name any players on the team that said they were ticked that Favre didn't have to go to last years mini-camps? No, you can't. You made up a fact to support your stance.

"2&4. Actually TT and MM have made those types of statements, time and time again. There was an entire article a week ago with TT saying Favre is not hurting them MM too. My assertion is that Favre's actions on several fronts is what has kept the circus rolling. If he wouldn't continually shove the blame for his decision on TT's actions, it would soon die down. "

end quote

I disagree with you and I'm calling on you to Stop going generic and talk about the specific comments in which Favre blames his decision on Thompson's actions and the specific comments or statements that you say McCarthy and Thompson have made time and time again... I missed that. Enlighten me. You name one article to support the statement of 'time and time and time again'. If there are so many, as you say, you should have an easy time finding them to quote.

"#3. I'm not saying he wanted short deadlines, but the proposal should have come from him. "

end quote

How do you know it didn't? I do know that management didn't want to pay him til he made a decision. I know Favre was pretty up front and honest about not being ready to meet the deadlines set in front of him. If he wasnt' ready to make a decision then why would he ask for a 1 week extension? It doesn't make sense. Regardless that ...management DID know that they didnt' want to pay him til he decided and they DID know he wasnt' ready to decide so why not do the smart thing and delay the bonus for a couple months instead of a week here and a couple weeks there? It doesn't make sense, does it?

"#4. The comment was directed at his actions this offseason, which is wht your original discussion was about. Favre has done much more harm to the organization this offseason with his comments than the good he has done during that same period.

He's called out his linemen,per a quote in another thread on here last week. I asked the same question you asked, and someone provided the answer referencing the article in which he said it.

He was quoted as saying to the effect "Have they signed anyone" in what was presented as a sarcastic comment by him.

He called this team as being closer to 4-12 than to a winning record, I heard that in one of his interviews.

My asserion is that TT and MM can not stop the fire of controversy, because Favre keeps feeding it. I referenced there attempts in "2&4" above"

end quotes

And once again you say all this stuff with nothing to back it up. No quotes...no reference to specific interviews... You just say things. You quoted a bunch of stuff I said but left out the part where I challenged you to include specifics. If you have nothing than say so. I do not see one single shred of proof from you where Favre criticized his teammates by name. I don't see a single area where Favre ripped the organization. These are things you said happened. Show me.

I heard the 4-12 12-4 comment too...I heard the whole press conference but didn't take it down shorthand. He also gave a backhanded shot at his lineman...basically said "we lost guys and didn't replace them, not to say anything about the guys we have, they play hard and want to win". I'm paraphrassing but it is essentially what he said. Gureski, did you watch his press conference or read the last two interviews he did? I'm sure there are more than just Shamrock which will vouch for what he basically said.

[Rastak]

"1. It has everything to do with the topic, because it might explain the difference in handling this year, and consequently the error in Sherman's handling previously. Less reason to give credit to Sherman for what he did. "

end quote

It has nothing to do with the topic. Your point is 100% speculation. Can you name any players on the team that said they were ticked that Favre didn't have to go to last years mini-camps? No, you can't. You made up a fact to support your stance.

"2&4. Actually TT and MM have made those types of statements, time and time again. There was an entire article a week ago with TT saying Favre is not hurting them MM too. My assertion is that Favre's actions on several fronts is what has kept the circus rolling. If he wouldn't continually shove the blame for his decision on TT's actions, it would soon die down. "

end quote

I disagree with you and I'm calling on you to Stop going generic and talk about the specific comments in which Favre blames his decision on Thompson's actions and the specific comments or statements that you say McCarthy and Thompson have made time and time again... I missed that. Enlighten me. You name one article to support the statement of 'time and time and time again'. If there are so many, as you say, you should have an easy time finding them to quote.

"#3. I'm not saying he wanted short deadlines, but the proposal should have come from him. "

end quote

How do you know it didn't? I do know that management didn't want to pay him til he made a decision. I know Favre was pretty up front and honest about not being ready to meet the deadlines set in front of him. If he wasnt' ready to make a decision then why would he ask for a 1 week extension? It doesn't make sense. Regardless that ...management DID know that they didnt' want to pay him til he decided and they DID know he wasnt' ready to decide so why not do the smart thing and delay the bonus for a couple months instead of a week here and a couple weeks there? It doesn't make sense, does it?

"#4. The comment was directed at his actions this offseason, which is wht your original discussion was about. Favre has done much more harm to the organization this offseason with his comments than the good he has done during that same period.

He's called out his linemen,per a quote in another thread on here last week. I asked the same question you asked, and someone provided the answer referencing the article in which he said it.

He was quoted as saying to the effect "Have they signed anyone" in what was presented as a sarcastic comment by him.

He called this team as being closer to 4-12 than to a winning record, I heard that in one of his interviews.

My asserion is that TT and MM can not stop the fire of controversy, because Favre keeps feeding it. I referenced there attempts in "2&4" above"

end quotes

And once again you say all this stuff with nothing to back it up. No quotes...no reference to specific interviews... You just say things. You quoted a bunch of stuff I said but left out the part where I challenged you to include specifics. If you have nothing than say so. I do not see one single shred of proof from you where Favre criticized his teammates by name. I don't see a single area where Favre ripped the organization. These are things you said happened. Show me.

I heard the 4-12 12-4 comment too...I heard the whole press conference but didn't take it down shorthand. He also gave a backhanded shot at his lineman...basically said "we lost guys and didn't replace them, not to say anything about the guys we have, they play hard and want to win". I'm paraphrassing but it is essentially what he said. Gureski, did you watch his press conference or read the last two interviews he did? I'm sure there are more than just Shamrock which will vouch for what he basically said.

[Patler]

"Yes, I called your comments, "naive", "ridiculous" and 'stupid". Did you not perceive my purpose in doing that? Did you not read my statement, "However, since that is how you wish to debate:" I was treating your remarks with the same disdain you gave mine. Get it????

I guess it is proper for Gureski to call Shamrockfans comment "ridiculous" but not for Shamrockfan to return the favor"

end quote

Now I'm calling you an idiot. You were offended that I would dare call something you said 'ridiculous' yet you had no problem jumping in yourself and calling my ideas dumb, stupid, and ect... The point that you obviously don't get is that you had no problem stooping to that low level of which you painted me and therefore you yourself are proven to not be above that.

Whether you realized it or not, you took a stance as if you're above such behavior and then proceeded to engage in such behavior. I believe the word is hypocrite.

No the word is PARODY or perhaps even SARCASM. Look at how I presented it. I used the same format you used, including "(statement) ... (characterization)" and even the same phraseology when it was within the realm of reasonable grammer.

[Patler]

"1. It has everything to do with the topic, because it might explain the difference in handling this year, and consequently the error in Sherman's handling previously. Less reason to give credit to Sherman for what he did. "

end quote

It has nothing to do with the topic. Your point is 100% speculation. Can you name any players on the team that said they were ticked that Favre didn't have to go to last years mini-camps? No, you can't. You made up a fact to support your stance.

Of course it is speculation, why do you think I wrote, "perhaps TT realized because of things we are not privy to that hands-off treatment of Favre was not a good thing for the team as a whole. Maybe it isn't good for Favre either, as evidenced by his growing undisciplined play under Sherman.

Its called an opinion, which really is all that your initial post was.

[Patler]

I disagree with you and I'm calling on you to Stop going generic and talk about the specific comments in which Favre blames his decision on Thompson's actions and the specific comments or statements that you say McCarthy and Thompson have made time and time again... I missed that. Enlighten me. You name one article to support the statement of 'time and time and time again'. If there are so many, as you say, you should have an easy time finding them to quote.

Article of 4/11 entitled, "Thompson: Favre isn't holding up the team"

From article of April 1, ""Anything as far as preparation of our team, particularly on the offensive side of the ball, will not be affected by this decision," McCarthy said Friday." (referring to Favre's decision.

From March 31 - "Friday afternoon, Thompson said he was OK with that." (Referring to Favre's statement that he would not have an answer by the weekend.

Also from March 31 - "Said Thompson: "I think Brett's just going through a decision-making process and all along I felt like he'll come up with a decision when he comes up with it. To gnash your teeth over it really doesn't do any good so we just try to go about our business."

That's just in the last few weeks