Carroll Released

[Patler]

Gureski;

I'm not going to get into a lengthy debate over this. I don't have the time today, and you pretty much ignore my explaination and just repeat your generalized complaint anyway. So I'll repeat my explaintion one more time and drop the issue.

Going into TC the Packer had nine corners; Blackmon, Carroll, Dendy, Fontenot, Harris, Hawkins, Horton, Wishom and Woodson. Wishom and Fontenot were just camp fodder, the others were expected to compete.

Hawkins refused to play with injuries, and finally exposed himself as an unwilling tackler. His leg injury last year seemed to take away a lot of his speed. He was done and gone. Horton just couldn't get it going. Too many injuries and illnesses. Blackmon and Dendy were both injured.

Carrol won the spot almost by default, but I also think the Packers wanted to give him one final extended opportunity to show that he could harness his obvious athletic skills and become a player. He hasn't shown that.

Blackmon is the key to this whole thing. They expected him to be ready in a couple weeks, but he had a setback. I assume he is now over that, or they may have held on to Carroll another few weeks. For the first time since training camp thay have options other tha Carroll at nickel. carroll has done absolutely nothing there in four games. You might as well try someone else.
Bush needed time. He has now had a month.

[Patler]

Patler, the statement about his attitude is completely untrue. What you see on the field may not have always been palatable, but what makes it any different than what 80% of the players in the NFL do to celebrate average plays?

On the flip side, how many CBs, especially young 1st round picks, would accept a demotion in favor of Joey Thomas and then again to Woodson with nothing more to say than, "My goal is to work harder?" Carroll demonstrated a great attitude off the field given his circumstances.

Hell, one of his goals was to contribute on ST. How many first round busts will you hear that from? I find it hard to believe he would have had any problem being demoted to ST only. And even if he did, that would be the time to cut him, not before.

I have acknowledged many times since last spring and did yesterday in this thread that I was impressed by the way Carroll handled the signing of Woodson. However, hotdoging before the play is done, rather than blocking on an interception return, constant harping to the refs over obvious penalties, etc. are things that many have found irritating. But what I was really referring to are possible things we don't know about. Several writers continue to imply that he does not accept coaching well. Whether it is an unwillingness or an inability to do what the coaches ask, the result is the same. Time to move on.

[MJZiggy]

Can someone please tell me exactly what this quote means?

"We felt it was time to go in another direction," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. "We wish Ahmad luck, and on a personal level, it may be in his best interest for him to move on to another NFL venue."

Thanks.

The actual quote is:

We talk personnel every day pretty much. Meeting with Ted and the personnel department and the coaches, we felt it was time to go in another direction. We're going to give Jarrett Bush and Patrick Dendy an opportunity. We wish Ahmad luck. On a personal level it may be in his best interest as he moves on to another NFL venue.

[/b]

Thank you. That makes much more sense. Packersnews misquoted.

[gureski]

Patler....stick around for one more go-round.

Are the replacements you speak of established players?

Do they have any experience being the #3CB for an NFL team?

Can you call them experienced at all?

Are they anything close to sure-things?

That's the point here. You say I'm repeating myself but that's because you refuse to acknowledge the point I'm making. Sure, they may believe these guys can work out but none of them are established and therefore, they're all shots in the dark! Worse, some are shots in the dark coming off injuries! This is by no means an ideal way to build a team or compete. THAT is the point. They're cutting a guy who was the only experienced DB available to play the Nickel and all they have left to replace him are questions! Believe it or not, the replacements could be worse then Carroll! And nothing you say addresses the idea that Carroll's athletic ability could've been useful to the team at safety or in special teams.

What happens if all the guys you mention fail? Then who do they fall back on? According to you, Carroll was the best option after those guys. If they fail, who do the Packers turn to then? Carroll will be playing for some other team. It's either mismanagement or idiocy. I was assuming they have some brains. Maybe you're right and it's pure idiocy.

[Patler]

More evidence of the poor level of coaching on the D side of the ball from JSO Notes:

Short shrift
The Packers were overmatched enough against the Eagles that they didn't need to make it any tougher on themselves.

But they did.

Twice they lined up on defense with just 10 men on the field.

On one of them, safety Tyrone Culver was summoned to the sideline and either knew better not to leave or simply followed orders. The result was a wide-open tight end L.J. Smith, who scampered 21 yards to the Packers' 4.

"(There were) problems with the no huddle, which is why a lot of people do that, switch personnel groups," McCarthy said. "Culver went on, which was the appropriate personnel group, but the communication for him to come back off was inaccurate, so that's what he did. We were going to our '47' group and that was a miscommunication there."

Someone also mentioned in another thread that Carroll adnitted one time it was his fault because he wasn't paying attention to the call on the sideline, and failed to realize he should go in.

[Patler]

Patler....stick around for one more go-round.

Are the replacements you speak of established players?

Do they have any experience being the #3CB for an NFL team?

Can you call them experienced at all?

Are they anything close to sure-things?

That's the point here. You say I'm repeating myself but that's because you refuse to acknowledge the point I'm making. Sure, they may believe these guys can work out but none of them are established and therefore, they're all shots in the dark! Worse, some are shots in the dark coming off injuries! This is by no means an ideal way to build a team or compete. THAT is the point. They're cutting a guy who was the only experienced DB available to play the Nickel and all they have left to replace him are questions! Believe it or not, the replacements could be worse then Carroll! And nothing you say addresses the idea that Carroll's athletic ability could've been useful to the team at safety or in special teams.

What happens if all the guys you mention fail? Then who do they fall back on? According to you, Carroll was the best option after those guys. If they fail, who do the Packers turn to then? Carroll will be playing for some other team. It's either mismanagement or idiocy. I was assuming they have some brains. Maybe you're right and it's pure idiocy.

I'll answer your questions with some of my own. Was Carroll an established player? Was he a sure thing? The answer to both is yes, but not in a good way. Personally, I defended Carroll all last summer, and I thought with him at nickel the Packers would be very good on passing downs. But, although he made some plays, he was absolutely atrocious on way too many long plays. It seems teams had decided to simply throw at him and let him screw up. Last year I thought he was OK at the end of the season, seemed to have good position much of the time etc. This year team after team showed that it didn't matter if he had good position or not, most of the time he wouldn't make the play. That kills a cornerback. If teams think they can complete passes against you even when you have good coverage, you are dead meat as a corner unless you prove them wrong with a bunch of interceptions. Carroll was never going to do that, it appeared

I was one strongly in favor of giving Carrol time to develope. But I admit now it wasn't going to happen in GB.

I don't care how bad or inexperienced Blckmon, Bush or Dendy are; no matter how poorly they play it won't be any worse than what Carroll has done this year at nickel.

Besides, teams rely on rookies to be starters all the time. The Packers did it with McKenzie, Carroll and Collins just in the D backfield. They counted on Hawk from the get-go this year. Other teams do too, all the time. Relying on a rookie as your THIRD cornerback is the way it is supposed to go, and preferrable to having him start.

[Guiness]

Blackmon is the key to this whole thing. They expected him to be ready in a couple weeks, but he had a setback. I assume he is now over that, or they may have held on to Carroll another few weeks. For the first time since training camp thay have options other tha Carroll at nickel. carroll has done absolutely nothing there in four games. You might as well try someone else.
Bush needed time. He has now had a month.

That makes the wheels turn. Blackmon originally got back on the field too early (last week of TC, I think) and re-injured his foot, didn't he? I wonder if they were trying to get him back so they could cut Carroll before the end of camp? This would be the case if we are to have any faith in Packer management, and hope that Gureski is wrong about them having no plan...

So - did Blackmon practice at full speed last week? Although it looks like Dendy might be the one getting the spot at nickel back.

Gureski, I truly hope you are wrong, but I'm not so sure you are

[KYPack]

You two lads are goin' at it pretty good.

G-man, you are in the middle of a full-blown, revelatory screed, man!

I do have a third take.

I think Carroll earned a benching not a cutting.

Take him off back-up corner
Take him out of the nickle.

He does dime and ALL specials that he fits in.

Chew his ASS & see if he responds at all. 99% you cut him at the end of the year, march or june depending on roster bonuses, etc.

We just really don't have the manpower to totally cut him loose.
He's a goof, a fool, a hotdog, an ass, a whatever.

But he does know where to line up. Some of these kids we got need camp, not regular season experience. We can't just loose him from a logistics standpoint. I thought he might make it, it didn't go. But now we have the greenest kids in the world trying to do a job they don't know.

It's gonna get ugly.

OTOH, maybe we might as well just take it in the pants and get it over with.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

You two lads are goin' at it pretty good.

G-man, you are in the middle of a full-blown, revelatory screed, man!

I do have a third take.

I think Carroll earned a benching not a cutting.

Take him off back-up corner
Take him out of the nickle.

He does dime and ALL specials that he fits in.

Chew his ASS & see if he responds at all. 99% you cut him at the end of the year, march or june depending on roster bonuses, etc.

We just really don't have the manpower to totally cut him loose.
He's a goof, a fool, a hotdog, an ass, a whatever.

But he does know where to line up. Some of these kids we got need camp, not regular season experience. We can't just loose him from a logistics standpoint. I thought he might make it, it didn't go. But now we have the greenest kids in the world trying to do a job they don't know.

It's gonna get ugly.

OTOH, maybe we might as well just take it in the pants and get it over with.

This is my take also. Bench him so you can see what Blackman and Bush have and they turn out to be wrose than AC you can go back with him. Also I pretty sure if we traded a 6th for R.Truluck, (not sure how to spell his name) a crappy backup DE, we could of got a 5th for AC. I know theres at least one GM who'd be willing to give a 5 th or 6th for AC.

[Sparkey]

You two lads are goin' at it pretty good.

G-man, you are in the middle of a full-blown, revelatory screed, man!

I do have a third take.

I think Carroll earned a benching not a cutting.

Take him off back-up corner
Take him out of the nickle.

He does dime and ALL specials that he fits in.

Chew his ASS & see if he responds at all. 99% you cut him at the end of the year, march or june depending on roster bonuses, etc.

We just really don't have the manpower to totally cut him loose.
He's a goof, a fool, a hotdog, an ass, a whatever.

But he does know where to line up. Some of these kids we got need camp, not regular season experience. We can't just loose him from a logistics standpoint. I thought he might make it, it didn't go. But now we have the greenest kids in the world trying to do a job they don't know.

It's gonna get ugly.

OTOH, maybe we might as well just take it in the pants and get it over with.

You make it sound like Bush and Dendy have never played football before. If Bush gets burned for a touchdown this week and commits two penalites what have we lost ? IF he was not going to play in the secondary anymore, then it was the correct move.

BTW, atleast management can admit a mistake and move on and not hold onto someone just out of hope that they "might" improve enough to validate their draft spot and roster spot.

The only thing worse than making a mistake is not admitting when you made one and correcting it.

[Patler]

It's gonna get ugly.

It was already ugly!

As for benching Carroll, what's the point? He was benched last year. He was already demoted once this year. Did anything change?

Another point that has been overlooked is the status of the roster for healthy players. This is the time of the season when roster spots start to become a little more valuable because of injuries. The Packers have Green hobbling, 2 linebackers hurt, 2 DTs hurt, 2 TE's with injuries, Ferguson probably is out and Driver is banged up. If they really want to play Blackmon, Bush and Dendy, it might be difficult to tie up another roster spot on a corner back. They may feel thay have to sign a linebacker, or a RB or a TE or WR just because those positions are thin of healthy players.

[HarveyWallbangers]

With or without Carroll, this team would still be 1-3. It's not like we were on the cusp of victory twice and Carroll gave up the game winning TD to sink us from 3-1 to 1-3. That's what makes this a sacrificial scapegoat more than a "statement."

We wouldn't have beaten the Bears with somebody else. We wouldn't have beaten Philadelphia, most likely, although Carroll played a huge role in the second half. Not so sure about the New Orleans game though. He gave up a long TD to Henderson by playing really poor coverage. We lost by 7 points. He may have indeed played a big factor in us losing that game.

[CaptainKickass]

Carrol played like a rookie for 4 years. Crappy performance on MNF = cut. I like that they are not afraid to pull the trigger. Shows some balls and should be a warning shot to Shittyhiemer and Bob. guess who's gonna be next?


lol - buh-bye ShittyHeimer.

[Zool]

Its possible that the school of thought is to release him now in the hopes that someone picks him up this season. That way his cap figure applys completely to this season and not next.

Someone will pick him up. Right or wrong he was cut. I am glad he's gone. He just wasnt cutting it. We had 2 DB's to replace him in TC, but they were both hurt. They are both near healthy now, so lets move on and see what we have.

[ahaha]

I'd like to know what's been going on in the meeting rooms. Is it possible that Carroll's preperation for games just wasn't up to snuff? Maybe he didn't pay that much attention in meetings. Example......"Ahmad, on this play you have over top coverage and you absolutely CAN'T bite on a play fake." "Yeah, sure coach, whatever." Then he goes out and makes that ridiculous mistake. Reports from scouts have said he doesn't take well to coaching. Maybe this kind of thing happened a lot. Maybe his laize-faire attitude to coaching in meetings got too frustrating for the coaches. If this theory is somewhat correct, it would give merit to the idea of cutting him as a message to other players about the kind of players the packers want, and who they're willing to cut if they don't have that.