A Case Study in Rebuilding - From Very Close to Home

[vince]

How can we have a great ability to draft, when OUR Scouting Dept. can't even advise Ted Thompson competently on talent available in Free Agency?

How many FA's still with us from 2005?

Did Ted take it down on his Scouting Dept?

Nope. Ted's loyal to his boys...but the Packer players are today's or tomorrow's wash water.

Too many reasons for Ted Thompson to make huge changes in OUR Scouting Dept. after 2005 and he does what?

That's correct. NOTHING.

Why's that Packer fans? Ever consider that Ted Thompson is nothing more than a puppet.That he is being shoved / pushed... little more than the silly puddy that he resembles?

Why can't Ted Thompson evaluate talent and be realistic in such evaluation for OUR immediate and future success?

The FA's from 2005...ALL Busts.

IMO and I include DT Ryan Pickett who has looked less than impressive compared to the Mike Sherman Packers... whooo ! whooo ! on OUR DL. The FA acquisition's (new to the team) have all been terrible.

CB Charles Woodson is a bust.

His number always seems to be on the ground instead of making plays and defending pass's. This stupid signing concerning the over the TOP inflated cost to OUR Cap (even for one disasterous season at $10 Million) makes no sense to me.

Excuse me while I try to control my...

GAG Reflex !!

Marquand Manuel = another BUST !!

Manuel is too slow. He needs to be a reserve. That starter could come from Underwood next year, or free agent. We'll see.

Pickett has been a key component of this D-line that has been VERY effective against the run. I disagree that he's a bust. He's been a SOLID pickup.

Woodson has been pretty good the last couple games. Obviously, it's no secret that the entire defensive backfield was poor the first three games, but Woodson has played well of late. I'll watch him over the next few weeks to see how he'll be. Definitely premature Woody, to call him a bust, but that's what people who are out to prove that Ted Thompson sucks do - jump to conclusions.

[woodbuck27]

" " If the Packers don't turn the corner next year and reach the playoffs, then TT will have failed in his efforts " Vince

b) May we gather from your statement above Vince?

That no playoff position in 2007 predicates that you will deem that Ted Thompson is a failure as OUR GM, if that's the case or obvious sometime in the 2007 season ?

So leaping ahead, or gathering that your response to question b) will be in the affirmative.

Your window of assessing Ted Thompson as OUR GM is three seasons, or 2005-07.

One at a time, Woody. My God you are all over the board in that post.

I believe that Ted Thompson not only SHOULD have this team on a very firm footing in the year 2007. I believe he WILL do just that. I see this team, with a number of additions in the next offseason, which we are in perfect position to make, as being very capable, with a little good luck, as all successful teams need, to be a playoff-caliber team next year.

If Ted Thompson has this team in position to be that, then he will have succeeded. Ted Thompson can't throw the football, catch passes, run the ball, or stop the run. He can put the people in place, and I expect him to do that. The man knows talent. There are no two ways about it.

If he comes in far below a playoff caliber team next year, then I believe he will have failed. I don't think that the rebuilding process needs to take 5 years anymore in this league. Ted Thompson is rebuilding pretty much from the ground up, starting from cap hell with little depth. He'll establish that timeframe as three years. Other teams have taken longer, and other teams don't have to rebuild. Unfortunately, THIS team did.

Ok I am seeing this:

YOU believe that Ted Thompson is REAL. That he does have what it takes to get us back in wining form...maybe alot more.

I certainly respect your beliefs and convictions Vince, but man-o-man... I'm not seeing that Ted Thompson.

How can two people both, dedicated Packer fans sit so polarized... on opposite sides of the fence... regarding someone as important to OUR future as "the Packers GM", and be so opposite in respect to how we each view his efforts... since he sat in his chair for us?

That's really a question to myself, Vince.

[vince]

You have confidence in Ted Thompson though, Ehh Vince.

We are 5W - 16L since he became OUR GM.

He is devious as hell... a DAM lier.

He's false in his actions. Wanting us to believe that his hatchet attacks hurt him so. He's just plain n' simple ...

False...a pure counterfeit. A lousy choice as OUR GM.

No backbone to even stand behind his OWN incompetent moves, with solid resolve and conviction, based in... " this is what had to be done because it was correct to do".

He's absolutely false, absolutely weak, absolutely wishy washy.

Ted Thompson done zero for us but harm us to date and horribly so.

Woody, I doubt if you will ever be persuaded, since you are so strong in your convictions, and have put yourself so far out there, but about all I can say about this little rant is this.

I believe you are absolutely WRONG in your character assassination of Ted Thompson. If you expect Ted - or any GM or Coach - to go in front of the press and always tell the absolute truth with no spin, you're living in a dream world, and believe me when I tell you that you don't want that. The fallout of always telling the truth in every situation is worse than spining some things. You can't go to the press and tell them that you cut Ahmad Carroll because, "He completely sucked." which would be the truth... You can't go to the press and say, "I am forced to rebuild this team because Mike Sherman was so inept as a GM that we can't sign the guys we'd like to, and on top of that, we are going to have to bring in 30 new players because the last 3 years drafts have been, well, pretty worthless."

You don't assassinate the character and pride of people in public like that, Woody. That's just comon decency.

Beyond that, I'd like to hear from you the specifics about how Ted Thompson is "the devil" or "evil" or whatever you called him...

And if Ted Thompson was WEAK in his character, as you assert, Woody, do you think he would have taken the steps to put this franchise in such great cap situation, at such high personal risk to his reputation? No, if he had a weak character, Woody, he would take the chickenshit way out and go over pay for high-profile guys that the fans would all "oooh" and "aaaah" about, but would never really help the team get to the next level.

Ted Thompson is NOT an eloquent speaker, but do not mistake that for his personal character.

[vince]

" A prediction.

YOU Sir ...will be withdrawing your support of Ted Thompson sometime next season.

You may be right about that Woody. If he doesn't get the team to - or at least very near - the playoffs next year, he will have failed his high reward, high risk game of Green Bay Packer General Management.

Time will tell. One thing I do know. You wore me out Woody.

Have a good night, friend. It's good debating these things with you.

[woodbuck27]

Let's just review his Record as OUR GM Vince.

1. We are still debating on this board "the fact or not", that Ted Thompson could "in reality" have restructured Players Contracts to enable/ensure Mike Wahle still being a Packer.

For Ted Thompson to restructure a bunch of deals to ensure Mike Wahle was still a Packer would have merely perpetuated the disease that ailed the team's situation. By restructuring deals, you are taking the dollars that are on this year's books and setting up new contracts with these players for more years out in the future.

THIS DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. RATHER, IT MAKES IT WORSE AND DRAWS IT OUT FARTHER IN THE FUTURE.

These players that restructure don't give money back. In fact, for the FAVOR of restructuring, you have to pay them MORE for LONGER. In order to do that, you have to backload their contract WORSE than it already was.

That's exactly the WRONG thing to do, Woody. You COULD do that, IF you want to make the team operate at an increasing competitive DISADVANTAGE FOR MORE YEARS IN THE FUTURE when you have more guys that are over the hill, not performing like they once could, yet you still have them on your cap books for large chunks of your available salary alotment.

BAD MOVE, Woody.

Having $15 million dollars and more allotted to players that are not contributing to your team in a year burdens the team with a built-in competitive DISADVANTAGE. This is why those teams that use this tactic fight with everyhting they have to win, because they have the vets on the team, but they're all overpaid and don't play like they used to.

Remember the Packers from a few years back, Woody? Those teams taht we so fondly remember in the Sherman era that were 10-6 in weak divisions, barely made the playoffs, and promptly got smoked like a cheap cigar in the first round every year? That's the poster child for this affliction. That's what you get. You don't get Super Bowl caliber teams. That's a proven fact.

I agree with you Vince on ** the disadvantage of pay less now...more later on behalf of Vet's., based in deferring payment of agreed upon Vet. $ owed today...to free up money to sign young stars.

Your saying that maybe Favre would have ( again ) said... go for it, anf I'll help, or use my Contract as YOU may Ted, but it never came to that.

[vince]

" Couldn't the money returned to the kitty *** there certainly have assisted in retaining Wahle? [/b]

A thought here Vince.

We won't go into, other CAP money that was available or could have been made available to ensure resigning Mike Wahle.

For example.

We won't consider "the fact"... that Brett Favre has in his past, and likely would have restructure his personal Contract (again), to ensure such an important player as Mike Wahle obviously was/would be for his success, and as a result was a must FA retention for OUR team for 2005 and beyond.

Then again. We won't open up "an old can of worms" and revisit that when Ted Thompson was hired as OUR GM.

No, let's revisit that, Woody. But then again, I already answered this a couple posts up. Restructuring contracts to make room under the cap because you have other contracts that are too large is a BAD MOVE, and perpetuates the disease that ails you in the first place.

I'm not following you there Vince.

What I'm referring to is Brett Favre not taking what he was scheduled to take in 2005, rather allowing (whatever $) that Ted Thompson needed, to secure Mike Wahle (if that was within reason).

Woody, surely you're not suggesting that Brett Favre would restructure his contract and play for free? Not gonna happen. He might restructure his contract so that the dollars can be accounted for in future years, but he is going to collect the money that is owed to him, and the only way to get those dollars off the books this year is to back them up into future years...

That doesn't solve the problem. It just delays the problem until next year... Sooner or later, you gotta pay the piper.

[vince]

" " If the Packers don't turn the corner next year and reach the playoffs, then TT will have failed in his efforts " Vince

b) May we gather from your statement above Vince?

That no playoff position in 2007 predicates that you will deem that Ted Thompson is a failure as OUR GM, if that's the case or obvious sometime in the 2007 season ?

So leaping ahead, or gathering that your response to question b) will be in the affirmative.

Your window of assessing Ted Thompson as OUR GM is three seasons, or 2005-07.

One at a time, Woody. My God you are all over the board in that post.

I believe that Ted Thompson not only SHOULD have this team on a very firm footing in the year 2007. I believe he WILL do just that. I see this team, with a number of additions in the next offseason, which we are in perfect position to make, as being very capable, with a little good luck, as all successful teams need, to be a playoff-caliber team next year.

If Ted Thompson has this team in position to be that, then he will have succeeded. Ted Thompson can't throw the football, catch passes, run the ball, or stop the run. He can put the people in place, and I expect him to do that. The man knows talent. There are no two ways about it.

If he comes in far below a playoff caliber team next year, then I believe he will have failed. I don't think that the rebuilding process needs to take 5 years anymore in this league. Ted Thompson is rebuilding pretty much from the ground up, starting from cap hell with little depth. He'll establish that timeframe as three years. Other teams have taken longer, and other teams don't have to rebuild. Unfortunately, THIS team did.

Ok I am seeing this:

YOU believe that Ted Thompson is REAL. That he does have what it takes to get us back in wining form...maybe alot more.

I certainly respect your beliefs and convictions Vince, but man-o-man... I'm not seeing that Ted Thompson.

How can two people both, dedicated Packer fans sit so polarized... on opposite sides of the fence... regarding someone as important to OUR future as "the Packers GM", and be so opposite in respect to how we each view his efforts... since he sat in his chair for us?

That's really a question to myself, Vince.

It seems to me that one of us has our eye on the present from the perspective of the recent past strictly in between the lines, and one of us has our eye on the future from the perspective of the bigger franchise management view.

I see manure. You see shit.