Is this 1-4 start easier to take then the last two?

[FavreChild]

I think by week 13 the difference between Wahle and Colledge will be smaller than you think.

In that they'll both be playing for non-playoff teams?

[Partial]

NO, it is not easier to accept this 1-4 start than any other.

yes it is

[retailguy]

I think by week 13 the difference between Wahle and Colledge will be smaller than you think.

Is Colledge gaining some weight?

[retailguy]

NO, it is not easier to accept this 1-4 start than any other.

yes it is

NO, definitely not.

[digitaldean]

No this start is not easier to take.

Especially when we had very winnable games except for the Bears game.

I do know that when we stop shooting ourselves in the foot (or our a$$e$), we are going to win these games.

[MJZiggy]

TT the megalomaniac has his regime in place and won't admit his mistakes.

I wouldn't go that far. If he were unwilling to admit his mistakes, Cory Rodgers would still be back there muffing punts.

[Brainerd]

Ok. So Favre is the only one unhappy about losing? They should bench him for thinking that the goal is to win football games.

Some former Packers coach once stated: Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

I'm getting tired of those who think its acceptable to lose cause we're young and inexperienced.

Belechick took over a playoff team years ago and has kept it competitive through alot of personal changes. He didn't see the need to gut a team and start over. TT took over a playoff team and has gutted it to its current level. Blame Sherman all you want but the Packers were in the playoffs the year before TT took over. The same people who are now claiming patience are probably the same people who were impatient with Sherman. At least Sherman won football games. TT only knows how to lose football games.

I'm not a Sherman apologist. He needed to be told a few things but TT decided for himself to put us through some losing seasons in the hopes that it would work out. Sherman never accepted losing. TT doesn't seem to mind losing.

Who cares if TT gets the Packers back to the playoffs? Why do us fans have to suffer through multiple losing seasons when we see other teams just reload and stay competitive?

The goal of every single player and coach is to WIN. That didn't happen today. The team didn't achieve their goal. Noone is happy about that. I can assure you that Mike McCarthy doesn't consider this loss "acceptable." He said after last game that the only way a team moves forward is through winning. Today wasn't a step forward in his mind. The team will apparently work through their bye week as a result of their current status.

What you don't seem to understand, Brainerd, is that the GM must take a more strategic view of the franchise than the coaches and players. His responsibility is to put the team in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS. I could care less about being merely "competitive," as your sights are apparently set on.

What you also don't seem to understand Brainerd, is the business side of how to go about putting a franchise in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Mike Sherman traded away picks to get the ONE GUY that he absolutely had to have in order to keep the team competitive for the short term because he deemed the franchise in position to compete for a Super Bowl. Well, he fell short of that goal, and now the franchise is paying the price for that.

Unfortunately for all of us, Sherman's draft picks consistently have turned out to be flops. The third and fourth year talent that should be coming into its own on this team is practically non-existent. That's Mike Sherman's fault. You know, the guy who "never accepted losing"?

And he mortgaged future years in order to sign guys like Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt to big free agent contracts, putting this franchise in a dire cap position where the team had to constantly restructure players' deals to get under the cap or let them go. Mike Sherman mortgaged the future to get wins, and it burned both him, and our franchise, right in the ass. Yeah, that guy that doesn't accept losing...

Also, you are revising history with your comments about Bellichick. He was 5-11 in his first year taking over the helm of the Patriots. He and the GM in New England understood that you have to draft and sign VALUE in order to win consistently in this league, and their franchise should be held up on a pedestal as a model of how to build a winner.

TT is using that model, Brainerd, but you just have to have the vision to see beyond the hand in front of your face to understand it.

I don't want to lose either - at all. That's why I am very glad to have a GM that understands how to build a consistent winner - the right way. You know, the Bellichick way? Or maybe, the Pittsburgh Steelers way? Or maybe, the Seattle Seahawks way? Or maybe, the Chicago Bears way? Look at everyone of those franchises, and you'll see that Ted Thompson is modeling his decisions after those models of success.

Doing what Sherman did is what got us to where we are today. TT, unfortunately, has to fix it and get things going in the right direction again. He's doing that, and that's why some people are OK with a loss today. There's a bigger picture to look at Brainerd.

Quit being a pretentious boob, Vince. You are not any smarter than the rest of us on this board, Vince. Your opinion carrys no more weight than any other, Vince. Although I fear you think it does, Vince.

You are using Sherman the GM as a whipping post to prove a point that is soley based on your opinion, Vince. Quit talking down to people in condesceding ways, Vince. Throwing around a bunch of facts is just throwing around a bunch of facts, Vince. Nothing you stated to make yourself look smart was pertinent to my post, Vince. I stated I wasn't a Sherman apologist and you throw around a bunch of facts to prove Sherman incompetant. Why, Vince?

Not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, Vince. Think of me what you want, Vince.

[Harlan Huckleby]

lordy lordy

[vince]

Ok. So Favre is the only one unhappy about losing? They should bench him for thinking that the goal is to win football games.

Some former Packers coach once stated: Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

I'm getting tired of those who think its acceptable to lose cause we're young and inexperienced.

Belechick took over a playoff team years ago and has kept it competitive through alot of personal changes. He didn't see the need to gut a team and start over. TT took over a playoff team and has gutted it to its current level. Blame Sherman all you want but the Packers were in the playoffs the year before TT took over. The same people who are now claiming patience are probably the same people who were impatient with Sherman. At least Sherman won football games. TT only knows how to lose football games.

I'm not a Sherman apologist. He needed to be told a few things but TT decided for himself to put us through some losing seasons in the hopes that it would work out. Sherman never accepted losing. TT doesn't seem to mind losing.

Who cares if TT gets the Packers back to the playoffs? Why do us fans have to suffer through multiple losing seasons when we see other teams just reload and stay competitive?

The goal of every single player and coach is to WIN. That didn't happen today. The team didn't achieve their goal. Noone is happy about that. I can assure you that Mike McCarthy doesn't consider this loss "acceptable." He said after last game that the only way a team moves forward is through winning. Today wasn't a step forward in his mind. The team will apparently work through their bye week as a result of their current status.

What you don't seem to understand, Brainerd, is that the GM must take a more strategic view of the franchise than the coaches and players. His responsibility is to put the team in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS. I could care less about being merely "competitive," as your sights are apparently set on.

What you also don't seem to understand Brainerd, is the business side of how to go about putting a franchise in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Mike Sherman traded away picks to get the ONE GUY that he absolutely had to have in order to keep the team competitive for the short term because he deemed the franchise in position to compete for a Super Bowl. Well, he fell short of that goal, and now the franchise is paying the price for that.

Unfortunately for all of us, Sherman's draft picks consistently have turned out to be flops. The third and fourth year talent that should be coming into its own on this team is practically non-existent. That's Mike Sherman's fault. You know, the guy who "never accepted losing"?

And he mortgaged future years in order to sign guys like Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt to big free agent contracts, putting this franchise in a dire cap position where the team had to constantly restructure players' deals to get under the cap or let them go. Mike Sherman mortgaged the future to get wins, and it burned both him, and our franchise, right in the ass. Yeah, that guy that doesn't accept losing...

Also, you are revising history with your comments about Bellichick. He was 5-11 in his first year taking over the helm of the Patriots. He and the GM in New England understood that you have to draft and sign VALUE in order to win consistently in this league, and their franchise should be held up on a pedestal as a model of how to build a winner.

TT is using that model, Brainerd, but you just have to have the vision to see beyond the hand in front of your face to understand it.

I don't want to lose either - at all. That's why I am very glad to have a GM that understands how to build a consistent winner - the right way. You know, the Bellichick way? Or maybe, the Pittsburgh Steelers way? Or maybe, the Seattle Seahawks way? Or maybe, the Chicago Bears way? Look at everyone of those franchises, and you'll see that Ted Thompson is modeling his decisions after those models of success.

Doing what Sherman did is what got us to where we are today. TT, unfortunately, has to fix it and get things going in the right direction again. He's doing that, and that's why some people are OK with a loss today. There's a bigger picture to look at Brainerd.

Quit being a pretentious boob, Vince. You are not any smarter than the rest of us on this board, Vince. Your opinion carrys no more weight than any other, Vince. Although I fear you think it does, Vince.

You are using Sherman the GM as a whipping post to prove a point that is soley based on your opinion, Vince. Quit talking down to people in condesceding ways, Vince. Throwing around a bunch of facts is just throwing around a bunch of facts, Vince. Nothing you stated to make yourself look smart was pertinent to my post, Vince. I stated I wasn't a Sherman apologist and you throw around a bunch of facts to prove Sherman incompetant. Why, Vince?

Not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, Vince. Think of me what you want, Vince.

Brainerd, I think you're wrong in your opinion. That's all. I'm not trying to talk down to you, just challenge your statements, which I disagree with.

You state that you don't think we should have to suffer through losing. I'm interested in what you would have done differently that supports your contention.

[FavreChild]

OK, I know that I was exaggerating.

But still, I fail to be impressed.

[Brainerd]

Ok. So Favre is the only one unhappy about losing? They should bench him for thinking that the goal is to win football games.

Some former Packers coach once stated: Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

I'm getting tired of those who think its acceptable to lose cause we're young and inexperienced.

Belechick took over a playoff team years ago and has kept it competitive through alot of personal changes. He didn't see the need to gut a team and start over. TT took over a playoff team and has gutted it to its current level. Blame Sherman all you want but the Packers were in the playoffs the year before TT took over. The same people who are now claiming patience are probably the same people who were impatient with Sherman. At least Sherman won football games. TT only knows how to lose football games.

I'm not a Sherman apologist. He needed to be told a few things but TT decided for himself to put us through some losing seasons in the hopes that it would work out. Sherman never accepted losing. TT doesn't seem to mind losing.

Who cares if TT gets the Packers back to the playoffs? Why do us fans have to suffer through multiple losing seasons when we see other teams just reload and stay competitive?

The goal of every single player and coach is to WIN. That didn't happen today. The team didn't achieve their goal. Noone is happy about that. I can assure you that Mike McCarthy doesn't consider this loss "acceptable." He said after last game that the only way a team moves forward is through winning. Today wasn't a step forward in his mind. The team will apparently work through their bye week as a result of their current status.

What you don't seem to understand, Brainerd, is that the GM must take a more strategic view of the franchise than the coaches and players. His responsibility is to put the team in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS. I could care less about being merely "competitive," as your sights are apparently set on.

What you also don't seem to understand Brainerd, is the business side of how to go about putting a franchise in position to win CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Mike Sherman traded away picks to get the ONE GUY that he absolutely had to have in order to keep the team competitive for the short term because he deemed the franchise in position to compete for a Super Bowl. Well, he fell short of that goal, and now the franchise is paying the price for that.

Unfortunately for all of us, Sherman's draft picks consistently have turned out to be flops. The third and fourth year talent that should be coming into its own on this team is practically non-existent. That's Mike Sherman's fault. You know, the guy who "never accepted losing"?

And he mortgaged future years in order to sign guys like Joe Johnson and Cletidus Hunt to big free agent contracts, putting this franchise in a dire cap position where the team had to constantly restructure players' deals to get under the cap or let them go. Mike Sherman mortgaged the future to get wins, and it burned both him, and our franchise, right in the ass. Yeah, that guy that doesn't accept losing...

Also, you are revising history with your comments about Bellichick. He was 5-11 in his first year taking over the helm of the Patriots. He and the GM in New England understood that you have to draft and sign VALUE in order to win consistently in this league, and their franchise should be held up on a pedestal as a model of how to build a winner.

TT is using that model, Brainerd, but you just have to have the vision to see beyond the hand in front of your face to understand it.

I don't want to lose either - at all. That's why I am very glad to have a GM that understands how to build a consistent winner - the right way. You know, the Bellichick way? Or maybe, the Pittsburgh Steelers way? Or maybe, the Seattle Seahawks way? Or maybe, the Chicago Bears way? Look at everyone of those franchises, and you'll see that Ted Thompson is modeling his decisions after those models of success.

Doing what Sherman did is what got us to where we are today. TT, unfortunately, has to fix it and get things going in the right direction again. He's doing that, and that's why some people are OK with a loss today. There's a bigger picture to look at Brainerd.

Quit being a pretentious boob, Vince. You are not any smarter than the rest of us on this board, Vince. Your opinion carrys no more weight than any other, Vince. Although I fear you think it does, Vince.

You are using Sherman the GM as a whipping post to prove a point that is soley based on your opinion, Vince. Quit talking down to people in condesceding ways, Vince. Throwing around a bunch of facts is just throwing around a bunch of facts, Vince. Nothing you stated to make yourself look smart was pertinent to my post, Vince. I stated I wasn't a Sherman apologist and you throw around a bunch of facts to prove Sherman incompetant. Why, Vince?

Not everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, Vince. Think of me what you want, Vince.

Brainerd, I think you're wrong in your opinion. That's all. I'm not trying to talk down to you, just challenge your statements, which I disagree with.

You state that you don't think we should have to suffer through losing. I'm interested in what you would have done differently that supports your contention.

See this thread.

[pbmax]

3rd and long is our nemesis. The defensive staff did better, but I still shake my head at some things I see. We stopped the Rams on 1st down most of the day, but we still get torched a lot on 3rd and long. Yet, in the second half what did we do: the few times we blitzed it was on 1st and 10, and we got gashed for some runs. 3rd and long. Still no blitzes. Still no pressure. Still gave up completions--although not as many as the first four weeks.

I am pretty sure I saw a blitz twice in 3rd and long and they got beat each time.

[packrat]

Brain, you say "Sherman never accepted losing"? Then why did he tolerate losers for so long--like B.J.Sander as the second punter on the squad when he wasn't good enough to cut it as the first string punter? Like stiffs such as Hunt getting humongous contracts and being kept on long after their lack of performance was obvious? If you don't cut second rate players, that means you ARE accepting losing.

[Brainerd]

Brain, you say "Sherman never accepted losing"? Then why did he tolerate losers for so long--like B.J.Sander as the second punter on the squad when he wasn't good enough to cut it as the first string punter? Like stiffs such as Hunt getting humongous contracts and being kept on long after their lack of performance was obvious? If you don't cut second rate players, that means you ARE accepting losing.

I also stated that I'm not a Sherman apologist. He made mistakes. What is the difference between Sherman the GM and TT the GM? Sherman the GM won games, TT the GM doesn't.

All GM's have made mistakes. Sherman was a lousy GM but he did win with his lousy picks and bad luck in FA. You think TT has made no mistakes, fine. I don't.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I am pretty sure I saw a blitz twice in 3rd and long and they got beat each time.

When? I saw three blitzes on 1st and 10. I don't remember seeing any on 3rd and long.