Is this 1-4 start easier to take then the last two?

[australianpackerbacker]

Brain, you say "Sherman never accepted losing"? Then why did he tolerate losers for so long--like B.J.Sander as the second punter on the squad when he wasn't good enough to cut it as the first string punter? Like stiffs such as Hunt getting humongous contracts and being kept on long after their lack of performance was obvious? If you don't cut second rate players, that means you ARE accepting losing.

I also stated that I'm not a Sherman apologist. He made mistakes. What is the difference between Sherman the GM and TT the GM? Sherman the GM won games, TT the GM doesn't.

All GM's have made mistakes. Sherman was a lousy GM but he did win with his lousy picks and bad luck in FA. You think TT has made no mistakes, fine. I don't.

My God how stupid could someone be.

You claim that Sherman the GM won games, which is correct, but your too self absorbed in blaming TT that you dont realise whose talent Sherman won with, because it obviously wasnt his draft picks that led to those division titles. Now your trying to put TT in his position but you fail to realise that we have more fingers than sherman had draft picks on his team at the beginning of last year, from ALL of his drafts.

And you expect a new GM to still win with no consistent flow of playmakers, like there was, say, under the guy who Sherman replaced as GM?

[Fritz]

As I have said before, and will say again, a GM's impact is less immediately felt in terms of draft picks than a coach's impact. To that end, it's only by the third year that you can really begin to get a handle on a GM's ability to draft. It's too early to say, therefore, about TT in terms of the draft. Who's to say how Marviel Underwood and Junius Coston will or won't pan out? Again, Mike Wahle was considered by many to be a bust until his third year.

So, when you look at Mike Sherman's three drafts - players who would now be in their third, fourth, and fifth years - you can get a pretty good sense of how he did as a draft guru. Let's see...there was Javon Walker (a great pick in terms of talent and production), Aaron Kampman (a very solid pick), Nick Barnett (depends on whom you ask), Al Harris via a second round pick (good corner), Corey Williams (part time guy), Cullen Jenkins (part time guy), Colin Coles (part time guy), and Scott Wells (looks to be solid). That's eight guys in three drafts, five of whom are starting material. Five starters in three drafts? Not so good.

And these are all guys that should be the core of the team. Therefore, when you look at the core now, it's all guys that were drafted by Ron Wolf - aging vets. So no wonder this team sits at 1-4, with this weird mix of old vets and rookies.

I do think you can compare some aspects of coaching. One thing I'd be curious to know (um, Patler, you there?) is how this year's Packer team stacks up in terms of penalties and turnover ratio compared to Sherman's last two teams.

I sure wish they'd won Sunday. But I'm not ready to slit my wrists, either.