AHMAN HEADED TO FREE AGENCY ???? JS

[Patler]

Wist;

When has TT not been reasonable?

Wahle, Rivera & Sharper situations were dumped on him in his first 6 weeks on the job, as was the overall salary cap situation. Could something have been done to keep one of them? Perhaps, but in view of the overall cap situation it was not unreasonable to let them go. The alternative was to rework others' contracts, pushing things into later cap years. Instead, he cleaned up the cap situation in one year.

Walker? To "satisfy" Walker (if that was ever even a possibility) would have had to be done in the same off-season that Wahle, Rivera and Sharper were let go. So handling the Walker situation any differently would have had the same implications as handling Wahle, Rivera or Sharper differently. Again, TT decided to bite the bullet in one season and cure the cap problems. Had Walker not been injured in the 1st game, I think it is likely they would have worked on a new deal when the final roster shook out as it did, with some moderate cap money still available later in the season. Walker himself made that impossible after the injury with the attitude he took. I am convinced, after looking at the overall picture, that Walker's goal was always to get out of GB, but that's another topic.

Was TT unreasonable in letting Flanagan and Longwell go elsewhere last season? I don't think so.

Has TT been unreasonable in signing Kampman, Pickett, Woodson, Driver, Wells or Harris as he did? Was he unreasonable in the contract given to Green last year? Was he unfair with Henderson, allowing him to see what others might offer, then matching it?

To me, TT epitomizes reasonableness. The path he follows is the reasonable path. What he won't do is get involved in unreasonable or unworkable demands of players. He won't give in to the excessivenes and flamboyance demonstrated by some owners, nor to the publicity fashioned by players' agents.

[Freak Out]

If TT lets Green go than he damn near has to draft a RB in the first 2 rounds....if they can work out a reasonable deal that would keep all options on the table during the draft TT makes it happen. I think Green will remain a Packer.

[Creepy]

I think Gb may let Green testthe FA, but may be willing to match most offers. What Green has to watch out for is findinf out he isn't worth what he thinks he is. I want him in GB next year and I think he will be. If he wants a big bonus that means added years to the contract, TT doesn't want to tie up cap money for a player he wthinks will be gone in two.

[Packnut]

Walker

Wist;

When has TT not been reasonable?

Wahle, Rivera & Sharper situations were dumped on him in his first 6 weeks on the job, as was the overall salary cap situation. Could something have been done to keep one of them? Perhaps, but in view of the overall cap situation it was not unreasonable to let them go. The alternative was to rework others' contracts, pushing things into later cap years. Instead, he cleaned up the cap situation in one year.

Walker? To "satisfy" Walker (if that was ever even a possibility) would have had to be done in the same off-season that Wahle, Rivera and Sharper were let go. So handling the Walker situation any differently would have had the same implications as handling Wahle, Rivera or Sharper differently. Again, TT decided to bite the bullet in one season and cure the cap problems. Had Walker not been injured in the 1st game, I think it is likely they would have worked on a new deal when the final roster shook out as it did, with some moderate cap money still available later in the season. Walker himself made that impossible after the injury with the attitude he took. I am convinced, after looking at the overall picture, that Walker's goal was always to get out of GB, but that's another topic.

Was TT unreasonable in letting Flanagan and Longwell go elsewhere last season? I don't think so.

Has TT been unreasonable in signing Kampman, Pickett, Woodson, Driver, Wells or Harris as he did? Was he unreasonable in the contract given to Green last year? Was he unfair with Henderson, allowing him to see what others might offer, then matching it?

To me, TT epitomizes reasonableness. The path he follows is the reasonable path. What he won't do is get involved in unreasonable or unworkable demands of players. He won't give in to the excessivenes and flamboyance demonstrated by some owners, nor to the publicity fashioned by players' agents.

TT blew it with Walker plain and simple. As you stated- had the injury not happened, a deal would have been worked out. The injury turned out to be a non-factor so TT guessed wrong. The Broncos gave Walker a contract that protected them against the injury so why did'nt TT offer the same thing?

As for your opinion that Walker wanted out, he has stated that he did not have a problem with Favre, but did have one with Thompson.

Some here live in fantasy land and claim that Walker going public is what pissed TT off. This is pure BS. Harris did the same damn thing and only shut up AFTER TT told him they would work something out.

The end result is Thompson learned his lesson and did'nt make the same mistake with Harris. I applaud him for that. Still, the Walker mistake set this organization back more than some want to admit. We still have no replacement which is why the Moss thing is with us and why we might need to take a WR with the 16 pick and not fill our need at RB. It's the domino principle at work.

And I don't care how many times a certain member uses his beating the dead horse post, you don't trade a #1 WR for a #2 draft pick. NE had the same situation and got a #1 for a WR who is no where near the talent of Walker.

[wist43]

Wist;

When has TT not been reasonable?

Wahle, Rivera & Sharper situations were dumped on him in his first 6 weeks on the job, as was the overall salary cap situation. Could something have been done to keep one of them? Perhaps, but in view of the overall cap situation it was not unreasonable to let them go. The alternative was to rework others' contracts, pushing things into later cap years. Instead, he cleaned up the cap situation in one year.

Walker? To "satisfy" Walker (if that was ever even a possibility) would have had to be done in the same off-season that Wahle, Rivera and Sharper were let go. So handling the Walker situation any differently would have had the same implications as handling Wahle, Rivera or Sharper differently. Again, TT decided to bite the bullet in one season and cure the cap problems. Had Walker not been injured in the 1st game, I think it is likely they would have worked on a new deal when the final roster shook out as it did, with some moderate cap money still available later in the season. Walker himself made that impossible after the injury with the attitude he took. I am convinced, after looking at the overall picture, that Walker's goal was always to get out of GB, but that's another topic.

Was TT unreasonable in letting Flanagan and Longwell go elsewhere last season? I don't think so.

Has TT been unreasonable in signing Kampman, Pickett, Woodson, Driver, Wells or Harris as he did? Was he unreasonable in the contract given to Green last year? Was he unfair with Henderson, allowing him to see what others might offer, then matching it?

To me, TT epitomizes reasonableness. The path he follows is the reasonable path. What he won't do is get involved in unreasonable or unworkable demands of players. He won't give in to the excessivenes and flamboyance demonstrated by some owners, nor to the publicity fashioned by players' agents.

I was being flippant... although Walker is a case in point - and I've argued that to death.

You guys know where I stand on the Walker thing.

[Patler]

Re: Walker

TT blew it with Walker plain and simple. As you stated- had the injury not happened, a deal would have been worked out. The injury turned out to be a non-factor so TT guessed wrong. The Broncos gave Walker a contract that protected them against the injury so why did'nt TT offer the same thing?

As for your opinion that Walker wanted out, he has stated that he did not have a problem with Favre, but did have one with Thompson.

Some here live in fantasy land and claim that Walker going public is what pissed TT off. This is pure BS. Harris did the same damn thing and only shut up AFTER TT told him they would work something out.

The end result is Thompson learned his lesson and did'nt make the same mistake with Harris. I applaud him for that. Still, the Walker mistake set this organization back more than some want to admit. We still have no replacement which is why the Moss thing is with us and why we might need to take a WR with the 16 pick and not fill our need at RB. It's the domino principle at work.

And I don't care how many times a certain member uses his beating the dead horse post, you don't trade a #1 WR for a #2 draft pick. NE had the same situation and got a #1 for a WR who is no where near the talent of Walker.

I don't think anything got TT pissed off. I think he handles these situations in a detached, unemotional, business-like manner. Too bad more fans can't look at them the same way.

TT didn't learn anything from the Walker situation. He didn't have to. Comparing the two is unreasonable because the situations were so different. The players situations were different. The players desires were different, and most importantly the salary cap situations were completely different.

If Walker wanted to stay in GB, why didn't he even give them a chance to re-sign him after the 2005 season ended? If he was upset because it wasn't done during the 2005 season, he is a bigger blockhead than I thought he was. With players going down left and right during the season and hitting the IR list, the Packers were running through their available salary cap very fast. The injuriies cost them something like $2 million during the season to sign additional players. The season no more than ended, and Walker was ranting about never playing again in GB, selling his house, etc., etc.

Walker's goal was to get out of GB from the time he first spoke up in the offseason following 2004. He KNEW the Packers had no cap space. He KNEW there were issues with Wahle, Rivera and Sharper that could cost money. He KNEW that Bubba Franks was a free agent, and would also require money to sign. All of this was happening at the same time, yet he hired the biggest rabble-rousing players' agent there was, and immediately brought up the "Give me respect, or I'll quit football argument."

I am completely convinced that Walker's goal was to get out of GB sooner or later.

Look at trades of other injured players, who were unsigned beyond a year or two and/or were disatisfied with their contracts. What are they worth in trades? What did MN get for Culpepper, a Pro Bowl QB who should have had much more value than a WR? What did Philly get for Owens?

Even if Walker had played in GB in 2006, do you think he would have stayed when his contract expired? TT got a second round draft choice for a player who would have played only one more season in GB, while recuperating from injury. That was a good deal.

I have always felt that good front offices are the ones who can let players go when the situation requires it. Look at all the players that Wolf let go. Pro Bowlers and near Pro-Bowlers, a future Defensive Player of the Year, the immediately passed Super Bowl MVP. He got NOTHING in return for them, because all left as free agents. Walker would have, too. At least TT traded Walker a year early and got a 2nd round draft choice instead of nothing.

[esoxx]

I agree with most of what you said, Patler. However, I don't agree they would have got "nothing" for JW if he had played '06 in GB. They likely would have franchised him and wouldn't have just let him go w/o using the mechanism they had at their disposal.

[TopHat]

I think Gb may let Green testthe FA, but may be willing to match most offers. What Green has to watch out for is findinf out he isn't worth what he thinks he is. I want him in GB next year and I think he will be. If he wants a big bonus that means added years to the contract, TT doesn't want to tie up cap money for a player he wthinks will be gone in two.

TOP HAT'S NOTE: NOT BAD, A GOOD VIEW OF SITUATION. REMEMBER, GREEN WILL BE AT FAN FEST.

http://packers.scout.com/2/620612.html

PACKER NOTEBOOK by Scout.com

"Here's a strong sign that running back Ahman Green will re-sign with the team, perhaps before he would reach the open market as an unrestricted free agent: Green, on Feb. 14, was added to the players' appearance list for the third annual Packers Fan Fest, which will be March 9 and 10 at Lambeau Field. Pro Bowl defensive end Aaron Kampman and middle linebacker Nick Barnett are the other marquee players who are committed for the sold-out event. Head coach Mike McCarthy was vague in a recent interview with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel about the team's intentions of bringing back Green, who needs only 46 yards to become Green Bay's all-time rushing leader. "I hope he's here," McCarthy said. 'Shoot, I don't know. Contract negotiations, I don't participate in....' "

[prsnfoto]

Not to mention the fact he sent his stepdaddy out to rip a future HOF'er and TT to the local and national media. That let me know he was a punkass little baby, when his stepdaddy said Javon made Brett a good QB I was ready to piss on his shoes, thanks guys my bloodpressure just went up I hated that little piss ant.

[MJZiggy]

I was ready to piss on his shoes

That would have made you famous for a bit. We could have all looked you up on the mugshot websites listed as the guy who pissed on Javon Walker.

[GBRulz]

Sign the man already. He's played out his contract, has never bitched about money and most importantly, he's the best player we've got. You guys talk about him slowing down, but I don't see that at all. I think he did great last year with a below average set of OL.

This will be TT's third year, it's judgement day...this is no time for him to be continuing to fill positions with NFL-E calibur players. He has plenty of cap room to work with. GET IT DONE, TT !!!!!

[Patler]

I agree with most of what you said, Patler. However, I don't agree they would have got "nothing" for JW if he had played '06 in GB. They likely would have franchised him and wouldn't have just let him go w/o using the mechanism they had at their disposal.

I doubt they would have tagged him. I was going to put my explanation for this in my original post, but it was getting too long already. However now that you brought it up................!

The franchise tag for wide receivers is simply too expensivefor the value they bring to the team.. $7.6 million for one season. While other positions are paid more, I believe the salaries are more justified based on the impact of an elite player at that position. A good offensive lineman can impact every offensive play almost. Same for D-line. I believe a good cornerback can impact how the other team plays to a large extent. I do not believe an elite WR has the same impact. (Just my opinion.) For example, would Walker have been worth twice as much as Driver? I don't think so.

One of the NFL columnists had an article last year about money wasted on wide receivers and how little return there is for it. I agreed completely with him.The Packers never would have paid that. Since I don't think Walker was ever interested in remaining in Green Bay, he would have rebuffed their offers for a long-term contract, and TT would not have invested $7.6 million in him to get one more season from him.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I agree with most of what you said, Patler. However, I don't agree they would have got "nothing" for JW if he had played '06 in GB. They likely would have franchised him and wouldn't have just let him go w/o using the mechanism they had at their disposal.

Actually Patler is right about that two. By 2006 he was so pissed that he said he not playing for the organaiztion and that he would holdout most of the year. Even if you tag him the next year, by then he has no trade valueand still woundn't play for you.

Were people can argue back and forth about is whether TT should have given him a new deal after the 2004 season. I don't thinkeven you Patler would argue that he wouldn't of signed it then. So the arguement then becomes why did TT give a new deal? Did Harris deserve a deal more than Walker? Walker actually had less years on his contract. You can claim that Harris is more proven, but if you think about it so walker. Each year he got better and better until he blow up. Don't tell me that its a fluke because it didn't come out of no were. And when a player is entering his prime he is should only be expected to get better.

[Patler]

Were people can argue back and forth about is whether TT should have given him a new deal after the 2004 season. I don't thinkeven you Patler would argue that he wouldn't of signed it then. So the arguement then becomes why did TT give a new deal? Did Harris deserve a deal more than Walker? Walker actually had less years on his contract. You can claim that Harris is more proven, but if you think about it so walker. Each year he got better and better until he blow up. Don't tell me that its a fluke because it didn't come out of no were. And when a player is entering his prime he is should only be expected to get better.

After the 2004 season? How? By releasing Wahle, not signing Rivera releasing Sharper and releasing Grey Ruggemer from a $1 million salary and re-signing him at the veteran's minimum barely got them under the salary cap prior to the draft, with the rookie allocation figured in. They were only about $200,000 under the cap in April. To have signed Walker to any kind of contract would have required generating additional cap space, because it would not have been generated from his contract.

If they could have generated cap space, they would have used it for Wahle, or maybe Rivera. But they really had no one significant to renegotiate with. Favre was said to be not elligible for renegotiation that Spring, because of having done it either too recently or too many times within a given period. There are limitations on how often you can renegotiate a player's contract. Most of the other high salary players were in their last years, like Green. To renegotiate his would have required a significant roster or signing bonus, just to give him the cash he was already guaranteed for that year. As a result, little cap space would be gained. Others were so new in their contracts, like KGB, that year, there was very little to gain against the cap. Also, that year the packers had very little payable as roster bonuses that could have been guaranteed so as to amortize over the remaining life of the contract and gain immediate relief in 2005. In short, there was just very little in the way of salary cap relief to be gained prior to signing all the rookies and cutting more veterans.

Besides, I'm not convinced Walker would even signed it then. As I said before, from just after the 2004 season, his main objective was to lay the groundwork to eventually get out of Green Bay, either immediately or by the time his contract was up. Signing an extension was not what he really wanted. It was just an excuse to develop the controversy needed to get out eventually.

[Brando19]

From Foxsports:

At this point, RB Ahman Green seems interested in testing the market to see how much he's really worth even though his preference appears to be to remain with the Packers. To keep predators away from their leading rusher, the Packers are going to have to find common ground with him fairly soon. ... The problem with the Packers letting Green test the market is that they don't know how other teams view him. Would it be surprising if the Denver Broncos, who run the same running system the Packers do, make him their lead back? No. Would it be surprising if Green's old coach, Mike Sherman, convinces the Houston Texans to make a bid for him? Absolutely not.

From KFFL:

Tom Silverstein, of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, reports the Green Bay Packers will not be utilizing the franchise or transition tag on soon-to-be free agent RB Ahman Green this year. Green's agent Joby Branion said his client is very interested in remaining in Green Bay. "I talk with him almost on a daily basis," Branion said. "He indicated he's in the best shape of his life. He's hungry to get out there and compete. He's in tremendously positive spirits. He's excited about the future. He's excited that Brett (Favre) is coming back. He's optimistic about going forward. At the same time, he knows it's still a business. He might have to explore other opportunities."