F/A JENKINS UPDATE

[the_idle_threat]

What makes this choice difficult is we all still feel the sting of the KGB debacle. How can you put fair value on a guy that only had 4 solid games? I think the safest way is to make him prove how good he is this season BEFORE handing him a lot of cash. I'd rather pay more for a sure thing then a lot for may-be's and could be's.

I certainly see your point. But if Jenkins has an Aaron-Kampman-in-2006 kind of season, which I think is very possible now that more blocking attention will be shifted over to Kampman's side, we will have a top-tier unrestricted free agent on our hands. Only now do we have some leverage to negotiate.

Many on this forum have advocated taking big chances on free agents, oftentimes when their former teams have very good reason to let them go (*cough* Lavar Arrington *cough**cough* Eric Johnson *cough*) Given what Cullen Jenkins has shown in terms of work ethic and improvement so far, why not take the chance on him instead?

[red]

Jenkins is the very definition of the type of young guy you look to extend b/4 you have to... if you wait until he's eligible for FA, you face the prospect of either having to pay top $$$, or losing him.

By being proactive, and signing him a year early, you're able keep him cheaper over the length of the contract, than if you waited the extra year. Being proactive in this way is a smart way to do business in the NFL.

Signing Jenkins now, a year b/4 he's eligible for FA, is a no-brainer, IMO.

i disagree

a young guy that has produced at a high level for a couple years is the definition of the young guy you want to lock up before he hits the market

jenkins had only proven to be a decent back up DT before the last for game of this season. he's a major gamble at this point. he could either be very good, making the money he's suppose to, or he could be nothing more then a backup DT making 40 million with a PRSB so high we can't dump him, that put the best 4 games of his life together in a row right before payday

[TopHat]

update

SEE F/A WATCH UPDATES.

[red]

carlyle holiday looked good the last game too

we mine as well throw 50 million at him too

and instead of trading samkon, we should have given him 80 million after what he did in 2005

and abdul hodge, i mean come on, you guys saw family night. we need to lock him up for the next 10 years right now

and what about underwood, he loked great in training camp, 15 mill up front is more then fair in todays market for the talent he showed

[Tony Oday]

Sign him take the chance!

[LaFours]

carlyle holiday looked good the last game too

we mine as well throw 50 million at him too

and instead of trading samkon, we should have given him 80 million after what he did in 2005

and abdul hodge, i mean come on, you guys saw family night. we need to lock him up for the next 10 years right now

and what about underwood, he loked great in training camp, 15 mill up front is more then fair in todays market for the talent he showed

All very good points...TT get these guys locked up long term. And get Gado back so we can sign him long term as well.

[Partial]

I agree with Wist on this one. We need to either get him signed, or lay down the 1st-round tender. He's not an All-Pro game changer, but he's very solid and I think we would have a difficult time replacing him.

$8 to 11 million of total guaranteed money over a 5 or 6 year deal is nothing close to top-tier money. We're not talking $8-11 million per year ...

Kabeer's contract, signed in 2003, had $13.25 million in guaranteed money.

Chad Clifton's contract, signed in 2004, had $11 million in guaranteed money.

On one hand, Clifton and Kabeer might have been considered more valuable players to the team at the time these deals were signed, but on the other hand, they were signed before the enormous salary cap increases of the past couple of years.

If $11 to 13 million was appropriate 3 or 4 years ago for a starting Left Tackle or Defensive End, then 8 to 11 million dollars in today's cap dollars is very reasonable for a guy who will play a lot of downs between DE and DT, starting many games at the end position.

Right, I think people are having a difficult time distingushing between 6 years versus 1 year.

If he was only given guaranteed money over the 6 years, he'd get between 1.5-1.8 million per year.

Lets say that is a base figure.

1.5-1.8 guaranteed per year. Tack on 2.5 mil per year in terms of actual non-guaranteed salary, and you have a 4 million per year player.

I suspect he'll get about 4.0-4.5 mil per year.

So, he'll get 1.5 per year guaranteed averaged out (TT will likely frontload it) plus a non-guaranteed 3.0 per year.

Make sense?

I don't get what the problem is with this. This is your standard solid vet salary. Probably even a little bit below that.

[Partial]

Jenkins is the very definition of the type of young guy you look to extend b/4 you have to... if you wait until he's eligible for FA, you face the prospect of either having to pay top $$$, or losing him.

By being proactive, and signing him a year early, you're able keep him cheaper over the length of the contract, than if you waited the extra year. Being proactive in this way is a smart way to do business in the NFL.

Signing Jenkins now, a year b/4 he's eligible for FA, is a no-brainer, IMO.

i disagree

a young guy that has produced at a high level for a couple years is the definition of the young guy you want to lock up before he hits the market

jenkins had only proven to be a decent back up DT before the last for game of this season. he's a major gamble at this point. he could either be very good, making the money he's suppose to, or he could be nothing more then a backup DT making 40 million with a PRSB so high we can't dump him, that put the best 4 games of his life together in a row right before payday

Red, you do understand at 9-11 million guaranteed over 6 years equates to less than the 1-year tender they'll offer him for RFA is, right?

Come on now, you're more sensible than that. He'll get about 4-4.5 mil a year total compensation, and for a young guy who played so well the last 4 weeks, despite perhaps not performing the rest of his time in the league, is pretty standard.

Most guys whom aren't stopgaps that are hitting their prime age like Jenkins make that kind of money. And if they don't make that kind of money, they hold out for more money and start causing problems.

You know this, though.

[red]

i don't care about the 2 million this year. i care about the 11 million dollar signing bonus. if he does turn out to be a dud, we have a guy making 4 to 5 million a year that we have to get rid of, but will hit with an 8 million or so cap hit if we have to get rid of him next offseason

and he's not a guy i think you should frontload, you don't eat a quarter of our available cap room on a guy that has had 4 good games in his career

if you frontload his deal. say 4 million signing bonus and 6 million roster bonus this year. plus his salary. you're looking at him counting 8 million against our cap this year. for 4 good games

a total signing bonus of 11 million is no good at all, you're looking at 2 million a year in PRSB. again horrible for an unproven guy

you think 4-5 million a year is ok for him? until the last 4 games he had proven to be no better then a backup dt worth a little more the the vet minimum. he has 4 good games, and now you guys think he's one of the top DE's in the nfl

[Partial]

i don't care about the 2 million this year. i care about the 11 million dollar signing bonus. if he does turn out to be a dud, we have a guy making 4 to 5 million a year that we have to get rid of, but will hit with an 8 million or so cap hit if we have to get rid of him next offseason

and he's not a guy i think you should frontload, you don't eat a quarter of our available cap room on a guy that has had 4 good games in his career

if you frontload his deal. say 4 million signing bonus and 6 million roster bonus this year. plus his salary. you're looking at him counting 8 million against our cap this year. for 4 good games

a total signing bonus of 11 million is no good at all, you're looking at 2 million a year in PRSB. again horrible for an unproven guy

you think 4-5 million a year is ok for him? until the last 4 games he had proven to be no better then a backup dt worth a little more the the vet minimum. he has 4 good games, and now you guys think he's one of the top DE's in the nfl

No, he's not near the best DE in the NFL. Not even top 30. Thats why he isn't being paid like a premiere guy. He is more than just a stopgap guy, for sure, though, and you have to pay him and if you don't give him some money now you know he'll hold out for more in two or three years.

[red]

Right, I think people are having a difficult time distingushing between 6 years versus 1 year.

right, and i think people have a difficult time realizing that it was bone headed stupid moves like you guys wanted to do that put us in cap hell in the first place a couple years ago, forcing us to get rid of half our good players

this is something sherman would do. "oh, he showed a flash, lock him up long term"

[Partial]

Corey Williams would get 3.5-4 mil per year. Jenkins is better than Corey Williams. Players progress and you pay them. Caps go up and salaries get bigger. No biggie.

[red]

jenkins wants kampman money

and he hasn't proven to be anywhere near as good as the pro bowl kampman

kampman, 5 year 25 million, 11 million in bonus money

jenkins is not kampman at this point

give him the one year tender, give him the biggest 1. he counts 2 million. no big deal. if he flops this year, you don't lose much. if he proves to be the real deal, and can do it for more then 4 games. then you pay him. you take the risk out of it

kampman had shown that he's worth that kind of money for more then a year before he got it, almost 2 years. jenkins has flashed for a few games and shown like he MIGHT be worth that kind of money

[Partial]

jenkins wants kampman money

and he hasn't proven to be anywhere near as good as the pro bowl kampman

kampman, 5 year 25 million, 11 million in bonus money

jenkins is not kampman at this point

give him the one year tender, give him the biggest 1. he counts 2 million. no big deal. if he flops this year, you don't lose much. if he proves to be the real deal, and can do it for more then 4 games. then you pay him. you take the risk out of it

kampman had shown that he's worth that kind of money for more then a year before he got it, almost 2 years. jenkins has flashed for a few games and shown like he MIGHT be worth that kind of money

Kampman got his contract before a big year, though. He was up-and-coming in 2005. He exploded this year. In fact, the situation was quite similiar to Kampman's.

[the_idle_threat]

Red, I think you're underselling Jenkins' impact to the team. He's 26 years old and entering his prime. Since he made the team in 2004, he has never been a bottom-of-the-roster backup player. For the past three seasons, he's been the team's best interior pass rusher. He started 6 games as a "rookie" in 2004, 12 games in 2005, and 5 games in 2006. He's been pretty durable, although he missed some time in 2006 which caused the defensive staff to delay their plan to install him at DE in leiu of KGB. When they finally got the chance to make that move in week 14, it paid off handsomely.

Reasonable people can disagree about whether signing him now is worth the risk. There is risk in any long-term signing, and certainy this would be no exception.

Your outright dismissal of the other point of view is obnoxious, and frankly, it's insulting.